PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

topic posted Fri, May 2, 2008 - 6:39 PM by  inna

Krugman rocks as usual.



Party of Denial
www.nytimes.com/2008/05/02...rugman.html

By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: May 2, 2008

During Barack Obama’s Sunday appearance on Fox News, the interviewer asked him for an example of “a hot-button issue where you would be willing to buck the Democratic Party line” and say that Republicans have the better idea.

Mr. Obama’s answer was puzzling because he gave credit where it isn’t due — and thereby undermined what could be a very effective Democratic line of argument.

In particular, Mr. Obama attributed to Republicans the idea that regulation can be flexible rather than a matter of “top-down command and control,” and in particular for the idea of controlling pollution with a system of tradable emission permits rather than rigid regulations.

Well, that’s not at all what actually happened — and the tale of what really did happen has a lot of relevance to current events.

It’s true that the first President Bush established a market-based system for controlling sulfur dioxide emissions, which has been highly successful at controlling acid rain. But by then the idea of markets in emission permits had long been accepted by economists of all political stripes.

And it had also been accepted by leading Democrats. The Environmental Protection Agency began letting cities meet air-quality standards using emissions-trading systems during the Carter administration — which also led the way on deregulation of airlines and trucking.

Furthermore, the sulfur dioxide scheme actually marked a sharp change in policy from the Reagan administration, which — committed to the belief that government is always the problem, never the solution — spent eight years opposing any effort to control acid rain.

Rather than admit that pollution is a problem the government has to solve — even as the consequences of acid rain became ever more alarming, not to mention as America’s failure to act provoked a near-crisis in relations with Canada, which was suffering the effects of U.S.-generated sulfur dioxide — the Reaganites insisted that there was no problem at all. They denied the evidence, questioned the science, called for more research and did nothing. Sound familiar?

And that, surely, is the line the Democrats should be pushing in this election: Republicans have become the party of denial. If a problem can’t be solved with deregulation and tax cuts, they pretend it doesn’t exist.

Climate change is the obvious contemporary parallel with acid rain. But if the Democrats really want to pin the denialist label on John McCain, health care is the place to focus.

The health care situation, in case you haven’t noticed, is going from bad to worse. Many smaller companies stopped offering benefits between 2000 and 2005. In the past, health coverage has tended to improve when the economy recovers from recession — but the “Bush boom” brought at best a temporary stabilization.

And now that the economy is weakening again, another plunge is in progress: last week UnitedHealth warned investors that its business is suffering because fewer employers are offering coverage to their workers.

The Democrats have been offering real plans in response; they’re not perfect, but they are serious.

The G.O.P., by contrast — and this goes as much for Mr. McCain as for the Bush administration — hasn’t even tried to address concerns about coverage. Instead, it has all been about costs, which Republicans insist (wrongly) can be dramatically reduced by a policy of, you guessed it, deregulation and tax cuts.

Until a few days ago, the only answer the McCain campaign offered to those worried about lack of coverage was the vague, implausible assertion that the magic of the marketplace would make health care cheap enough for everyone to afford.

Now Mr. McCain has admitted that maybe a government program is needed for those who can’t get private insurance. This appears to be a response to criticism from Elizabeth Edwards, who has been pointing out that deregulated insurers would deny coverage to anyone with, say, a history of cancer — a category that includes both her and Mr. McCain himself. But the way Mrs. Edwards has rattled the McCain campaign is evidence of just how vulnerable he is on the issue.

The point is that the health care issue could be Exhibit A for a Democratic campaign based on the argument that they are the party of pragmatic solutions, while modern Republicans won’t even acknowledge problems that don’t fit into their rigid ideological framework.

But are Democrats ready to make that case?

To be clear, both Democratic candidates have been saying things they shouldn’t; Hillary Clinton shouldn’t have endorsed the bad idea of a gas tax holiday.

But I think Mr. Obama is doing much more harm to the Democratic cause by echoing Republican attack lines on such issues as insurance mandates and Social Security. And now he’s demonstrating his post-partisanship by giving Republicans credit for good ideas they never had.
posted by:
inna
SF Bay Area
  • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

    Fri, May 2, 2008 - 8:25 PM
    I totally forget: who is this "Barack Obama", again? Some sort of orator, I take it?
    • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

      Fri, May 2, 2008 - 8:28 PM
      According to glenzz he's a dangerous black nationalist who will endanger our white wimmin.
      • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Shill for Evil Lite™

        Fri, May 2, 2008 - 8:51 PM
        You know what? I wish he was. I wish a real-deal Black Nationalist even existed in the public world anymore. I recently got a hold of this incredible retro on Emory Brooks so now I have all this kickass poster-sized glossy print all over my office making me feel all radical and dangerous.

        Where the hell did all our energy go?

        At what point did people suddenly believe that the stinking Democrats were going to save us all? Esso won't let the Dems save us all, America: they won't let Obama do it, neither.

        Anyone who doesn't say "we have to fight and fight like mad animals if want to be free, now" is not really an American leader. The corporate web that controls US policy makes King George look like a Care Bear. Rolling over for this nightmare will never, ever have been the right idea.
        • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Shill for Evil Lite™

          Fri, May 2, 2008 - 9:02 PM
          Well...get out and raise some hell, then. I'll be right behind ya....me and about 3 others. Maybe.

          Its depressing how many people who are "alternative" and all that are totally ignorant about politics. Gravel was right, the corporations really do control the culture now. Its weird. The move The Matrix pretty much nailed it, Americans are a bunch of pod people who are living in a virtual reality created by machines while the machines suck their life-blood (and that of the planet) dry.
          • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Shill for Evil Lite™

            Fri, May 2, 2008 - 9:23 PM
            >> Well...get out and raise some hell, then. I'll be right behind ya....me and about 3 others. Maybe. <<

            Well all right, then!!!

            I've been trying to organize a specific group for about a year now. I can say only that my plan is as safe as any real demonstrative action could be, and as nonviolent, but definitely scary, and definitely incurs the same risk as any public protest would. PM me.

            I can muster, in addition to the usual suspects among my more active fellow cultists, a surprisingly large number of surprisingly full-on southerners as well as a hefty dollop of privileged Emory college students. The action is not designed to destroy any property or endanger any lives (beyond the normal danger of being pegged by pigs when doing insane shit outside with the obvious intent of raising political hell).
  • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

    Fri, May 2, 2008 - 9:02 PM

    cDub - will you please kindly demonstrate how this article is 'pro-Hillary"??


    (fyi, he critisizes both of them, but emphasizes that they *both* are WAY better than the gopsters.)
    • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

      Fri, May 2, 2008 - 9:11 PM
      Uh - did you read the article?!?

      "To be clear, both Democratic candidates have been saying things they shouldn’t; Hillary Clinton shouldn’t have endorsed the bad idea of a gas tax holiday.

      But I think Mr. Obama is doing much more harm to the Democratic cause by echoing Republican attack lines"
      • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

        Fri, May 2, 2008 - 9:23 PM


        like i said, he is critical of *both* of them.


        you might as well call this an anti-Clinton, anti-Obama article. (granted, the Great Paul (not unlike my humble little self) is (justifiably) LESS critical of Clinton than he is of Obama. ::: good for him::: lol )
        • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

          Fri, May 2, 2008 - 9:25 PM
          Quit being obtuse, I posted the quote, you are WRONG. If you can't concede this simple obvious point you're off-the-charts shillaring.
          • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

            Fri, May 2, 2008 - 9:36 PM

            <<Quit being obtuse, I posted the quote, you are WRONG. If you can't concede this simple obvious point you're off-the-charts shillaring.>>



            oh. buzz off.


            *you* are being "obtuse".



            ::: sulks, mopes, leaves for the night ::::

    • <cDub - will you please kindly demonstrate how this article is 'pro-Hillary"??


      (fyi, he critisizes both of them, but emphasizes that they *both* are WAY better than the gopsters.)>

      that's just mental.

      anyone who cannot percieve the pro-hillary bias in that article is either mentally enfeebled or mentaly corrupted.

      he dresses obama down for the entire article and then adds one quick caveat at the end about hillary and her 'gas tax holiday'.

      not to mention this is just the last in a long series of krugman articles specifically anti-obama and pro-hillary. to the point that one can only assume hillary guaranteed him some incredible prestigious post if he agreed to become a 'clandestine' hatchet man for her campaign's propaganda machine.

      yeah, yeah, i know, i'm full of shit and am blinded by my fanatical slavering devotion to barack and YOU are the clear thinking balanced one here.

      so STOP IT inna. just BE HONEST. that all. just take off your partisan tinted glasses long enough to evaluate information honestly.








      • D' - chill out, dude. seriously.

        you're projecting your own (new found, extreme, unexplainable and bordeline pathological) partisanship onto me.


        fuck that shit. i'm just not into it, sorry.
        • Re: i HATE it

          Fri, May 2, 2008 - 11:03 PM
          oh my gosh
          • Re: i HATE it

            Fri, May 2, 2008 - 11:12 PM
            the problem is you are all getting tangled up in the loose ends. it's no different than trying to run with your shoe laces untied.
            i see people still trying to force shape the sugary donuts into being pizzas with all the toppings.

            it can't happen. the wind up dolls can strut and prance. . .but they are only toy soldiers, and we don't own the key.

            IT IS A TIME THAT REQUIRES TITANS.

            stop playing with the pretty toys. they don't belong to you anyway. .

            Stand up and start pushing and shoving. . .it's the only way for citizens to take the reins. .
            • Re: i HATE it

              Fri, May 2, 2008 - 11:22 PM
              <IT IS A TIME THAT REQUIRES TITANS.

              stop playing with the pretty toys. they don't belong to you anyway. .

              Stand up and start pushing and shoving. . .it's the only way for citizens to take the reins. .>

              Only titan i see positioned to meet this challenge with even a remote chance of success is barack. And that grows more remote daily. It sure as hell ain't the corrupted masses that compose the current ctizenry.

              • Re: i HATE it

                Sat, May 3, 2008 - 12:35 AM

                uh... Barack... uh, a *titan*??......



                what are you guys smoking??....


                (in fact, i don't even want to know. can i just please have some of that?.....)
                • Re: i HATE it

                  Sat, May 3, 2008 - 1:07 AM
                  I was replying "seems to be the case" to >>"It sure as hell ain't the corrupted masses that compose the current ctizenry. "<<

                  pardon; I regret any confusion this may have caused.

                  My problem is not NEARLY enough smoking is going on over here.
        • <D' - chill out, dude. seriously.

          you're projecting your own (new found, extreme, unexplainable and bordeline pathological) partisanship onto me.>

          'new found,extreme,unexplainable' - i've been posting detailed and lenghty PERSONAL observations and evaluations of obama for well over a year, making my case for WHY i draw the conslusions i draw. something i've not seen you do. any doofus can post an article written by someone else.

          so, just like a four year old who suddenly came to the end of her limited reasoning capacity, you just start spewing out rubbish with utter disregard to facts or the truth because it's all you have.

          as for me being borderline 'pathological' - i'm not the person who went mental a some weeks ago deleting posts and threads because i didn't LIKE them and when called on it went hysterical blaming some 'mystery' deleter 'out to get me' by deleting things to make me look bad.

          pretty pathetic and VERY dishonest.
          • yup. inna has exposed herself as lacking in logical reasoning facilities. basically hillary has a vagina so inna is for her, facts be damned.

            • <<yup. inna has exposed herself as lacking in logical reasoning facilities. basically hillary has a vagina so inna is for her, facts be damned.>>

              that's just stupid and rude.
              • all that glitters is not gold.

                Sun, May 4, 2008 - 7:07 PM
                <<<yup. inna has exposed herself as lacking in logical reasoning facilities. basically hillary has a vagina so inna is for her, facts be damned.>>

                that's just stupid and rude. >

                inna was pro obama some months back. what changed her mind was not a sudden awareness that she and hillary shared a similar genital topogaphy, but a chris floyd article painting obama as a fifth columnist stooge of the elite and a Very Bad Man. chris floyd articles have been posted numerous times by inna - he oviously is at or near the top of her list of credible and informative writers. mine too, actually.

                chris floyd has some serious anti-establishement cred and while i found his obama article somewhat less than honest, full of sly spin and not balanced, i certainly consider the vast majority of his articles articulate and penetrating. therein lies the conundrum. and therein lies the trap. a trap easy to fall into.

                not disimilar to paul krugman, another writer i held in high regard, until his series of articles on obama that, like floyd's articles on obama, did not pass the smell test. did not hold up under close scrutiny.

                in both cases there were degradations in the (usually very high) quality of reasoning used in their arguments. an obvious necessity when the facts need to be stretched and twisted to fit a pre-conceived and rather obviously partisan conclusion. hillary - good, obama - bad.

                the conclusion i draw - most likely hillary's campaign has reached an 'arrangement' with chris and paul.
                • Re: all that glitters is not gold.

                  Sun, May 4, 2008 - 7:16 PM
                  i don't think there is any agreement. i think that the range of political views across the democratic party is broad.
                  but a unifying theme is that democrats want to win. and i believe that many democrats believe that clinton can and will win and moreover, will be an effective fighter when she is president.

                  as loathe as i am to admit it, being a radical and all. . .i would far prefer either clinton or obama to mccain.

                  that's what it is all about. . .the more establishment the democrat is, the more likely they are to support hillary, fond memories and all. .
                  there are people who were pleased with bill's presidency and who want to bring things back for an encore, because much of what he wanted to accomplished was blocked.
                • Re: all that glitters is not gold.

                  Sun, May 4, 2008 - 7:16 PM

                  <<inna was pro obama some months back. what changed her mind was not a sudden awareness that she and hillary shared a similar genital topogaphy, but a chris floyd article painting obama as a fifth columnist stooge of the elite and a Very Bad Man.>>

                  completely untrue. (and ridiculous.)

                  1) i've never been pro-obama (i was/am pro-edwards, if pro-anyone).

                  2) i don't even recall the article you're referring to, and your whole idea of me switching my support from Obama to Clinton because of some obscure article is.... uh, laughable. for a number of reasons i'm not going to go into.




  • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

    Fri, May 2, 2008 - 9:23 PM
    It is ironic that Krugman, who was always uneasy with Bill Clinton's "Third Way" appeasement of the Reaganites, should be biting Obama's ankles over such things. He is, after all, a die-hard Hillary supporter. And Hillary has taken the Third Way further to the right.
    • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

      Fri, May 2, 2008 - 9:28 PM
      Lets note that before he became the Great White Hope of the left by being the only mainstream commentator brave enough to state that the Chimperor had no brain when the media was pretending he was a new Napoleon, Krugman took a LOT of criticism in the 90s from the Left for his "free" trade advocacy.

      Krugman is basically an establishment liberal with an honest streak, he's not a leftist. Cleary the non-orthodox Democratic left has adopted Obama (MoveOn, etc.) and he disagrees. But - he's entitled to his opinion.
    • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

      Fri, May 2, 2008 - 10:28 PM

      Jimi. BHO is a triangulator (more than the clintons have ever been, arguably.)


      come on. this *divisive, sick* shit is just *HURTING* whatever the fuck is still left of the 'Democratic party'.


      oh boy. ~ :::: sigh ::::
      • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

        Fri, May 2, 2008 - 10:34 PM
        Obama opposed the Iraq war.

        The Clintons' record is clear:

        - Attacked welfare
        - Pushed thru NAFTA
        - Deregulated telecom & enabled media consolidation
        - Killed 500,000 Iraqi children through sanctions
        - Bombed the living shit out of Iraq whenever Bill had a bimbo eruption
        - War crimes bombing Serbian civilian infrastructure
        - Support for Iraq invasion
        - Founders of the DLC -> pushed Dems rightwards

        The only thing thats sick are people who support stone cold killers like the Clintons and claim to be progressives.
        • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

          Fri, May 2, 2008 - 10:39 PM
          Also, triangulation is about pushing things towards the "center" i.e. halfway between you and your ideological opponent. Since the Rethugs have been in brownshirt mode for some time that meant Clinton pushed the Democratic party center. Your entire analysis is fllawed Inna.. Obama pushes left and talks center. He has been criticizing Clinton's 90s triangulation if you'd read his speeches past the intro language about working together and read the center.

          Honestly your reading comprehension seems to be sorely lacking.
        • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

          Sat, May 3, 2008 - 12:25 AM

          <<Obama opposed the Iraq war.>>

          what a fucking joke.

          seriously, cDub - get a grip. research the way he voted wrt the iraq "war" (i.e., pretty much a euphemism for....

          nm. i'm not even going there tonight. it takes a toll, if you know what i mean. - but you probably don't, anyway, )
          • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

            Sat, May 3, 2008 - 1:26 AM
            it takes a toll because you don't argue logically. you post drive-by snippets and huff about how brilliant you are. i will dismantle you on the hillary-barack topic every time, you never even touch my discussion of 1/2 million dead iraqi children, nafta, etc. alll of which hillary brags about and says she was an integral part of.

            look if you want to be a centrist neoliberal have fun. but quit pretending you are anywhere near the left.
            • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

              Sat, May 3, 2008 - 2:07 AM
              Logically arguing for a current candidate's merit is impossible. 2+2=4 - no matter what. You can "argue" that 2+2=3 but that's really not "logical" is it.

              They're all a waste. The entire thing is a terrible joke. They're going to *kill us* - not out of evil or a desire to harm, but simply out of the scramble to try to cash in and be part of the elite that believes it will be "saved" somehow from the dooooooom.
            • Re: PAUL KRUGMAN: Party of Denial

              Sat, May 3, 2008 - 3:04 PM

              LMBO.


              dude - FYI, your hero is a CENTRIST NEOLIBERAL. (you "stole" that expression from me, didn't you. ;)


              that's *precisely* why i don't like him.


              Hillary is an old hack, and i never liked her either, but.... i guess it took *Obama* for me to start appreciating Hillary a litle bit.



              <<but quit pretending you are anywhere near the left.>>
              uh... yeah. i'm siding with O'Reilly. obviously.

              (funny that you said that. i know, it was very late and all, but.... stop being such a partisan Obama hack/shill, for god's sakes.)