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GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

topic posted Thu, May 15, 2008 - 9:23 AM by  Home
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Tar baby?

In a 20-page memo on GOP electoral woes, Rep. Tom Davis (R-Va.) repeatedly misspells Barack Obama’s name – it’s one R, congressman, not two -- and then manages to use the racially charged term “tar baby” in a paragraph about Obama and immigration.

“Remember,” Davis writes, “Hispanic voters are a swing group in this election and future elections. John McCain, being from a border state, may be out of sync with many Republicans but he has standing among Hispanics. Barrack Obama has not made the sale to Hispanic voters. Thus, this issue is a tar baby for anyone who touches it, with land mines everywhere.”

The party of bigots!
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  • Unsu...
     

    Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

    Thu, May 15, 2008 - 9:30 AM
    “Remember,” Davis writes, “Hispanic voters are a swing group in this election and future elections. John McCain, being from a border state, may be out of sync with many Republicans but he has standing among Hispanics. Barrack Obama has not made the sale to Hispanic voters. Thus, this issue is a tar baby for anyone who touches it, with land mines everywhere.”


    Shut the Fuck up~!!! Talk about mindless PC postering
    • NL
      NL
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      Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

      Thu, May 15, 2008 - 9:41 AM
      <<Thus, this issue is a tar baby for anyone who touches it, with land mines everywhere>>

      To be fair, he was calling immigration policy a tar baby, not Obama. Probably a bit of a Freudian slip.
      • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

        Thu, May 15, 2008 - 10:20 AM
        why was it a freudian slip

        tar baby is a oft used term..........
        • NL
          NL
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          Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

          Thu, May 15, 2008 - 10:24 AM
          <<tar baby is a oft used term..........>>

          A very pregnant one.
          • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

            Fri, May 16, 2008 - 3:54 PM
            Although the term's provenance arose in African folklore, some now consider "tar baby" to have negative connotations revolving around pejorative images of African-Americans.[2] Specific reasons why the term developed negative racial aspects are difficult to identify. In recent years, several politicians who have publicly used the term have encountered some controversy, mocking, and censure from African-American civil rights leaders, members of the popular daily media, and other politicians.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_baby

            ************

            To use the term in conjunction with speaking of an African American is an insult in African American culture. The use of the term in any case is despicable.
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              Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

              Fri, May 16, 2008 - 4:01 PM
              He probably saw Disney's Song of the South as a kid and nobody ever told him the connotation. Some politicians are not the sharpest tools in the shed. They just have people skills and perhaps not language. Like the poor sap who used "Niggardly" and lost his job. If you are going to be a politician a rudimentary knowledge of the english language helps. Otherwise you might become the next Macaca star on youtube
              niggardly link
              www.cnn.com/US/9901/27/word.flap/
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                Fri, May 16, 2008 - 4:09 PM
                Macaca, was definitely used as an insult, which doesn't compare to using a questionable term, in the same sentence that one mentioned an African American politician. This thread just highlights the neurotic nature of many in this tribe
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                Fri, May 16, 2008 - 4:11 PM
                So basically, we can deem any word as racially charged?


                "An aide to the District of Columbia's mayor resigned Tuesday citing pressure from controversy over his use of the word "niggardly," which some deemed a racial slur.

                But even as he stepped down, David Howard, who is white, said the word does not have any racial connotation"
              • niggardly

                Fri, May 16, 2008 - 8:41 PM
                <Like the poor sap who used "Niggardly" and lost his job.>

                Wow. That's fucking insane.

                <If you are going to be a politician a rudimentary knowledge of the english language helps.>

                On the contrary, this shows it hurts.

                When I was in college around 2001 this word was also in the news, and I remember my ERS professor (who's a Black African-American) went out of his way to explain what niggardly meant, and that it wasn't a racially offensive word.
                • Re: niggardly

                  Tue, May 20, 2008 - 3:32 AM
                  Wait a minute.

                  This thread is too long for what it all amounts to in the end.


                  "Sicks and stones".


                  Like Nike, "just do it".

                  Thread drift is a bitch but I'm just getting here after seeing the OP for awhile.



                  And what's "niggardly"?



                  I have to re-read this thread a few times.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: niggardly

                    Wed, May 28, 2008 - 3:36 AM
                    <And what's "niggardly"?>

                    stingy
    • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

      Fri, May 16, 2008 - 5:13 PM

      Um, it's not at all PC and racially ignorant, but racist?

      This is the definition of what a "tar baby" is: Tar-Baby was a doll made of tar and turpentine, used to entrap Br'er Rabbit in the second of the Uncle Remus stories. The more that Br'er Rabbit fought the Tar-Baby, the more entangled he became. In contemporary usage, a tar baby refers to any "sticky situation" that is only aggravated by efforts to solve it.
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_baby

      I'd not say it, but that does not mean that it's specifically meant to be insulting. And, in the use I just read, it was not at all as such unless this person MEANT for it to be a bigoted/racist term. Did he? Or, was he just careless and ignorant?

      <tar baby is a oft used term..........>

      Yes, but from those that do not know that they are being racially insensitive or who don't care that they are being racially insensitive.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

        Fri, May 16, 2008 - 5:17 PM
        "I'd not say it, but that does not mean that it's specifically meant to be insulting. And, in the use I just read, it was not at all as such unless this person MEANT for it to be a bigoted/racist term. Did he? Or, was he just careless and ignorant?"


        Honestly, I can't understand how you would think "Tar Baby" was used towards Obama, in this situation.
      • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

        Fri, May 16, 2008 - 7:17 PM
        Toni Morrison: Contemporary Critical Essays
        By Jill L. Matus page 93-94

        Explains why "tar baby" is an insult in the African American community.

        books.google.com/books

        Bottom line is it demeans us all.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

          Fri, May 16, 2008 - 7:19 PM
          "Explains why "tar baby" is an insult in the African American community."


          And cracker is in the white community, or meatball in the Italian American. It doesn't mean these words are offensive if used in the proper context.
          • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

            Fri, May 16, 2008 - 7:48 PM
            I should probably just let this lie but it's kinda in train wreck mode by now --

            Please give an example of the "proper" use of the term tar baby.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

              Fri, May 16, 2008 - 7:55 PM
              "Please give an example of the "proper" use of the term tar baby."



              Sure Blue. From the original post:

              "John McCain, being from a border state, may be out of sync with many Republicans but he has standing among Hispanics. Barrack Obama has not made the sale to Hispanic voters. Thus, this issue is a tar baby for anyone who touches it, with land mines everywhere.” "

              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                Fri, May 16, 2008 - 8:01 PM
                >> Sure Blue. From the original post: <<

                you get the feeling that a large portion of this tribe hold very passionate beliefs about things they know nothing about.
                • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                  Fri, May 16, 2008 - 8:37 PM
                  luckily we have people like Yoni here to set us straight.

                  i am very familiar with the story where this comes from but never considered the possibility that term might have some racist connotations.
                  if you are not living with the racism that might victimize you at any minute, it is hard to judge the relative demerits of using this term. . .
                  so, if you are some jiveass honky, just shut the fuck up ( just joking ) . . .

                  we should all be sensitive to others. . .period. the english language is the richest language in the world, with the largest vocabulary by far and with many cultural traditions to draw upon. particularly those in the public eye should be very careful what they choose to say.

                  i can't tell this man what to do, but making a sincere apology never hurts.

                  i have only scarcely felt any sort of racism against me. . .i know that my great grandparents probably did. but i would sure love to live in a world where racism doesn't exist. . .wouldn't you?????

                  yeah? but probably not as much as some who faces the possibility of racism, large or small. . .every single day. .
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                    Fri, May 16, 2008 - 8:47 PM
                    "if you are not living with the racism that might victimize you at any minute, it is hard to judge the relative demerits of using this term."


                    It is racist only when used in the proper context.


                    "we should all be sensitive to others. . .period. the english language is the richest language in the world, with the largest vocabulary by far and with many cultural traditions to draw upon. particularly those in the public eye should be very careful what they choose to say. "

                    Or people should just except the fact that living in a free society comes with the responsibility of accepting that you will not always be catered to


                    "i can't tell this man what to do, but making a sincere apology never hurts. "


                    Apology for what and to whom?


                    "i have only scarcely felt any sort of racism against me. . .i know that my great grandparents probably did. but i would sure love to live in a world where racism doesn't exist. . .wouldn't you????? "


                    Yeah, and some want to live in a world where it rains raspberry sherbert


                    "yeah? but probably not as much as some who faces the possibility of racism, large or small. . .every single day. . "


                    A good way to start dealing with a problem is by defining what it is, and what it is not. This is a clear case of what is not
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                    Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:09 PM
                    <i would sure love to live in a world where racism doesn't exist. . .wouldn't you?????>

                    If that's the case you should be arguing against ignorance in regards to racial issues, rather than promoting it. How does it help any racial group when you send the message it's okay for that group to be perceived as ignorant and hypersensitive based on that ignorance? Bullshit like this makes racism worse.
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                      Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:10 PM
                      Great explanation, Scott
                      • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                        Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:15 PM
                        goodness! you both seem so offended by even the mildest opinions! i wonder why THAT is the case?
                        • Unsu...
                           

                          Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                          Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:20 PM
                          I think we are defending by people trying to define something as racist, that is clearly not. Maybe if you try to explain to us *how* it is racist to call an inescapable trap a tar baby, then we might be more willing to see your side. But all we are getting in this thread is its racist because your masters told you so.
                          • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                            Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:57 PM
                            >> Maybe if you try to explain to us *how* it is racist to call an inescapable trap a tar baby, then we might be more willing to see your side. <<

                            let me give it a stab. you see "racism" has little to do with racial prejudice. you know having it in for someone because of their skin color. nope. it's evolved to a new stage where people are considered racist if they happen to say something that is "perceived" as racist. so it has nothing to do with actual intent and everything to do with control.

                            I can speak from experience when I was reprimanded at work years ago because someone "felt" I was being racist when I used the term "prejudice" outside of a racial context. luckily I am a minority so that bullshit didn't stick. I sure would have hated to have been some pasty-faced cracker trying to defend himself against that kind of stupidity.

                            but the best part is that people are foisting their prejudice on others and seeing things because of their own hangups. but the conversation has mutated to a point where you can't even point that out. you're guilty period. if you think the accusation is idiotic you're even more guilty. welcome to thunderdome.
                            • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                              Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:37 AM
                              < it's evolved to a new stage where people are considered racist if they happen to say something that is "perceived" as racist. so it has nothing to do with actual intent and everything to do with control.>

                              The use of racial slurs at the highest level of authority signifies how much racism has become part of American culture. It's a part I'd prefer not to have.

                              Usage of racial slurs by the highest level of authority also lends legitimacy to the term.

                              Use of *a* racist slur doesn't particularly signify a racist. It does signify the comfort level which the speaker has using the term. That signifies a pervasive attitude of society accepting racism as the natural order of things. THAT is the larger issue. And THAT is why responsible top level officials think before they speak.

                              Just because it used to be common phraseology doesn't mean it has to be now. Politicians do not say things like:

                              chink in the armor
                              we were gypped
                              pardon my French (not a race I know)
                              shuck and jive (remember Ed Randell?)
                              squaw
                              wooden indian
                              mexican standoff

                              So why condone usage of this slur aimed at African American girls?

                              • Unsu...
                                 

                                Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                                Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:43 AM
                                "The use of racial slurs at the highest level of authority signifies how much racism has become part of American culture. It's a part I'd prefer not to have."


                                Is it racist to use the word meatball?

                                "Usage of racial slurs by the highest level of authority also lends legitimacy to the term. "


                                This would be correct if an actual slur was used


                                "Use of *a* racist slur doesn't particularly signify a racist. It does signify the comfort level which the speaker has using the term. That signifies a pervasive attitude of society accepting racism as the natural order of things. THAT is the larger issue. And THAT is why responsible top level officials think before they speak."


                                Please, Blue, you keep ignoring this fundamental question. How is using Tar Baby, in its proper context, racist?


                                "Just because it used to be common phraseology doesn't mean it has to be now. Politicians do not say things like:"


                                Because, in its intended form, there is no connotation to race or ethnicity
                              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                                Sat, May 17, 2008 - 2:49 PM

                                you're probably too indoctrinated to be open to reason but I'll give it a try.

                                words aren't racist. it's the intent that matters. you see real racists use words to hurt and diminish other people. but "pardon my french" or "mexican standoff?" sorry charlie. only upper and middle class kids with a chip on their privileged shoulder would bother to wast the effort to get all worked up over crap like that.

                                >> So why condone usage of this slur aimed at African American girls? <<

                                why try to intimate that I'm condoning a slur aimed at african american girls? unless you're giving into the tried and true tactic of manipulating the conversation in order to make me look like a racist for disagreeing with you.

                                "tar baby" is a word in the lexicon. it has a definition and a usage. from what I gleaned from yet another non-issue we're debating on this tribe, it wasn't use to insult anyone. but the fact is that because of your politics, you see advantage in beating this for all it's worth. I guess this kind of crap works or people like you wouldn't do it. but sorry. I'm not white enough or guilty enough to be intimidated by your cynical tactics.
                              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                                Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:25 PM
                                <chink in the armor>

                                What's wrong with this? Chink has totally different meanings unrelated to race or ethnicity.

                                >we were gypped
                                >pardon my French

                                ...though these ones directly link a negative behavior with specific ethnic groups.

                                >shuck and jive (remember Ed Randell?)

                                Not familiar with this one.

                                >squaw

                                Apparently there's been some disinformation about the etymology of this word. It's definitely 'racial', but is it necessarily a slur?.

                                >wooden indian

                                How is this used in speech?

                                >mexican standoff

                                Why is this any more insulting than describing something as a Pyrrhic victory or a Waterloo?
                                • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                                  Sun, May 18, 2008 - 12:55 AM
                                  >>What's wrong with this? Chink has totally different meanings unrelated to race or ethnicity. <<

                                  it's wrong because the kid that posted it doesn't like the way it sounds. which I guess is reason enough to qualify the word as racist.
              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:14 AM
                I guess that means there's a proper use for N***** too. Cause that's equivalent to tar baby. It was used by whites in the old south to describe young black girls. It wasn't a compliment. It was an outright racial slur.

                The bottom line is, and I'll speak up so you can hear me: THERE IS ***NO*** PROPER USE FOR THE TERM TAR BABY. Use of that term by anyone, much more a supposed political leader is offensive and despicable.
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                  Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:28 AM
                  "I guess that means there's a proper use for N***** too"

                  Nope, the only use of the word nigger is the popular one. Look in any dictionary


                  "Cause that's equivalent to tar baby"

                  No, tar baby has its roots in African American Folklore, and ultimately African Mythology. Though the word does have another meaning, due to it being high jacked by the less intelligent. The same is true for meatball, queer, fag, banana, and cracker. Do you want to ban these words, as well?

                  "It wasn't a compliment. It was an outright racial slur."


                  The the original meaning of the phrase is something completely different, and in this instance, was used correctly


                  "The bottom line is, and I'll speak up so you can hear me: THERE IS ***NO*** PROPER USE FOR THE TERM TAR BABY."

                  Yes there is, just look at the origenal post. If you find it personally offensive, then may be you need to ask yourself why. You seem to have some serious racial hang-ups that you need to address


                  "Use of that term by anyone, much more a supposed political leader is offensive and despicable."

                  Only for an idiot, who has no common sense


                  Blue, reading can help with the above
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                    Sat, May 17, 2008 - 11:39 AM
                    If you remember it was me that did the legwork of looking up tar baby and I provided a few links on the subject. Your statement insinuating I hadn't read up about the subject is misguided.

                    So here's some more on the N word: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger for which there is no proper use either. It's equally offensive coming out of the mouths of any race.

                    Further, my extended family is of mixed race origin. issues with race? No. Issues with institutionalized racism at the highest levels of government.

                    I worked in marketing for 6 years. It was enough to know that you don't need to say someone is this or that. All you have to do is use their name in the same sentence and the picture gets implanted in the mind. It's the basic psychology of selling. You implant positive connections with your product to increase sales.

                    At the same time you eliminate negative connections to keep your product in a favorable light. This was such a huge principle of marketing that companies used to pay people to surf chat rooms (pre blogs) and bulletin boards to report on how their product was viewed by the public.

                    If you don't think the point got across to the "right" people then why did Kevin James shout "well if he didn't say Obama, he should have"? Bush knew exactly what he was doing. He's the master at imply-i-zizing.

                    bottom line is this racism of any type has no place in modern society. Whether or not the term originates in Africa (yes there are Africans who are racist against other Africans) or not we must, as a society, move beyond the concept or the condoning of racism in any form.

                    And, by the way my Italian kids have never been called a "meatball" as a racial slur or otherwise. They've taken more hits for being blond and blue eyed (ain't genetics fun). You think that didn't make me angry? You bet it did. Hate on any level is still hate.

                    We will never see eye to eye on this Dust. So pick away. I've said what I have to say. Been nice chatting.
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                      Sat, May 17, 2008 - 11:58 AM
                      "So here's some more on the N word: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger for which there is no proper use either. It's equally offensive coming out of the mouths of any race. "

                      Yes, which makes it different then the phrase "tar baby"


                      "Further, my extended family is of mixed race origin. issues with race? No. Issues with institutionalized racism at the highest levels of government."


                      Then what is your problem with using a phrase correctly?


                      "I worked in marketing for 6 years. It was enough to know that you don't need to say someone is this or that. All you have to do is use their name in the same sentence and the picture gets implanted in the mind. It's the basic psychology of selling. You implant positive connections with your product to increase sales. "


                      It sounds like you want to punish people for thought crimes

                      "If you don't think the point got across to the "right" people then why did Kevin James shout "well if he didn't say Obama, he should have"? Bush knew exactly what he was doing. He's the master at imply-i-zizing. "

                      This has nothing to do with the topic

                      "bottom line is this racism of any type has no place in modern society. Whether or not the term originates in Africa (yes there are Africans who are racist against other Africans) or not we must, as a society, move beyond the concept or the condoning of racism in any form."


                      First you need to prove to me that this is racist, no matter how it is used, then we can talk about what to do. So far, you have failed miserably, and keep resorting to these emotional outcries of injustice. Which makes you come across as totally ignorant

                      "And, by the way my Italian kids have never been called a "meatball" as a racial slur or otherwise. They've taken more hits for being blond and blue eyed (ain't genetics fun). You think that didn't make me angry? You bet it did. Hate on any level is still hate."


                      Yeah, but there are many more Italian Americans in this country besides your kids. And so, the meatball slur is totally relevant


                      "We will never see eye to eye on this Dust. So pick away. I've said what I have to say. Been nice chatting."


                      Basically, you have no way to defend your belief that this is a racist remark?
                • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                  Sat, May 17, 2008 - 2:40 PM
                  >> The bottom line is, and I'll speak up so you can hear me: THERE IS ***NO*** PROPER USE FOR THE TERM TAR BABY. Use of that term by anyone, much more a supposed political leader is offensive and despicable. <<

                  you and the rest of the thought police better bring that to merriam webster's attention.

                  www.merriam-webster.com/dictio...%20baby
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                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                    Sat, May 17, 2008 - 2:45 PM
                    Kind of ironic that tar baby has become a tar baby
                    • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                      Sat, May 17, 2008 - 2:54 PM
                      >> It does signify the comfort level which the speaker has using the term. That signifies a pervasive attitude of society accepting racism as the natural order of things. THAT is the larger issue. And THAT is why responsible top level officials think before they speak. <<

                      I'm sure it just signifies the comfort level MW has with defining a racist term.
          • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

            Sun, May 18, 2008 - 9:46 PM
            Show me a white person who has felt threatened or deeply insulted by being hearing the word "cracker"


            • Unsu...
               

              Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

              Sun, May 18, 2008 - 9:49 PM
              Right here
              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                Mon, May 19, 2008 - 11:13 AM
                Bullshit
                • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                  Mon, May 19, 2008 - 11:17 AM
                  why do you say bullshit?

                  Just because you are not offended by the word doesn't mean no one else is...

                  I think all racist language should not be used...but there's the difference between me and you...you think it's okay as long as it's directed towards white people...
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                  Mon, May 19, 2008 - 11:28 AM
                  Are you asking in general use, Parad, or when it is leveled towards me in a racial epithet? If you mean in general use, then no, I am intelligent enough to understand what a cracker really is, and that the word has a correct use, outside of being a racial slur. Just like Tar Baby, Fag, Queer, Banana. and in the world of symbolism, the Swastika. Personally, I rather scum not dictate how I communicate, due to them hijacking a word, phrase, or symbol , This only allows these assholes to limit my speech, a person who is innocent from using these words in such a manner. Also, attacking offensive words does nothing to address the cause for such thinking, in the first place. The same reasoning that sees words as the source of rasicm, also sees pornography as the source of sexism. Or drugs as the cause of crime. It allows them to ignore the fundamental problem, while only attacking a symptom.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                    Wed, May 21, 2008 - 9:43 PM
                    That is what I thought. You are inte4lligent and don't decide to make yourself miserable because you hear a word. That is what I suspected.
                • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                  Mon, May 19, 2008 - 11:54 AM
                  >> moi: Obama's victory lap would be a lot more convincing if he wasn't simultaneously getting creamed in so many primaries. <<

                  >> Parad: Bullshit. <<

                  I stated an objective fact. Huge losses like the one in West Virginia and the one tonight in Kentucky, and the one coming up in Puerto Rico definitely make any "victory" for Obama, imagined or otherwise, less convincing. And since we live in a democracy, more or less, those defeats could even help his opponent and help HER become the nominee.
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                    Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                    Mon, May 19, 2008 - 11:56 AM
                    Oh, I see - Parad was saying bullshit in response to something else. But he is still wrong, nonetheless.

                    I have a good friend from South Carolina who is a life-long Socialist, and she also happens to be white - and she is deeply offended by the term cracker.
                    • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                      Tue, May 20, 2008 - 2:48 AM
                      >> I have a good friend from South Carolina who is a life-long Socialist, and she also happens to be white - and she is deeply offended by the term cracker. <<

                      I don't understand why people continue to get so worked up over bullshit terms.
                      • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                        Tue, May 20, 2008 - 4:51 AM
                        >>I don't understand why people continue to get so worked up over bullshit terms.<<

                        A) they're taught to, and
                        B) because they are jealous of the people who can successfully play the "born a victim" card day after day - which is stupid in and of itself. It's like saying "golly I wish everyone would gather around *my* wheelchair and tell me how well I'm doing".
                      • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                        Tue, May 20, 2008 - 7:33 AM
                        >> I don't understand why people continue to get so worked up over bullshit terms. <<

                        It often looks different when the shoe is on the other foot - or, preferably, someone else's foot. Most people's first exposure to slurs is as children - and it is the kind of thing that tends to stick with you. And then when you get older you might have children of your own - and you think about them being exposed to that.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                    Mon, May 19, 2008 - 11:56 AM
                    "I stated an objective fact. Huge losses like the one in West Virginia and the one tonight in Kentucky, and the one coming up in Puerto Rico definitely make any "victory" for Obama, imagined or otherwise, less convincing. And since we live in a democracy, more or less, those defeats could even help his opponent and help HER become the nominee."

                    I believe that was in response to me, and Prasad is a Paul supporter, as well
  • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

    Fri, May 16, 2008 - 5:10 PM
    It's really incredible to me that after so much attention to this issue that people like Tom Davis don't even take the time to think about how their language will look. They, or their advisors, certainly should know that the term is offensive to many blacks and anti-racists.

    It's almost like they don't care about blacks' (or anti-racists') feelings or opinions.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

      Fri, May 16, 2008 - 5:12 PM
      "They, or their advisors, certainly should know that the term is offensive to many blacks and anti-racists. "


      There are many words that people find offensive, the same with life styles, but it doesn't mean they should be outlawed.
      • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

        Fri, May 16, 2008 - 5:15 PM
        i'm not arguing for outlawing any words.

        i'm saying that for a politician to use words that a group finds offensive is a pretty strong signal that he doesn't care about their votes. why would a politician do that?
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          Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

          Fri, May 16, 2008 - 5:19 PM
          "i'm saying that for a politician to use words that a group finds offensive"

          What, were you elected the voice the opinion of the entire African American community?


          "is a pretty strong signal that he doesn't care about their votes."


          Depends on his demographic, I'm sure

          • Unsu...
             

            Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

            Fri, May 16, 2008 - 6:01 PM
            What is fascinating Dustin is I was basically agreeing with you by nature politics are partisan and both sides will get leverage however they can. Its why I address Hillary as Mrs. Clinton fair? No. But she brought up Obama's lack of experience and I use it rhetorically to highlight her true experience (that of being Bill's wife. "Tar baby" if you dig down far enough has a racial connotation, however, the man who said that probably did not mean it that way. The last time I remember it was Tony Snow using it in a press conference. Just as yesterdays "sweety" faux pas by Obama does not mean that he devalues women. Sometimes politician telegraph intently and some times speaking of the cuff they use a term that can be used as a tool against them. Partisan hacks and otherwise are going to throw whatever they can against the ceiling to see what sticks and what gets votes. Calling people fuckers probably wont score any points. . .
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

              Fri, May 16, 2008 - 6:12 PM
              "What is fascinating Dustin is I was basically agreeing with you"

              If you are talking about here:
              uspolitics.tribe.net/thread/...b25c64fe
              uspolitics.tribe.net/thread/...258f5254

              Then I was just highlighting your points


              '"Tar baby" if you dig down far enough has a racial connotation'

              The same can be said of rice patty, banana, cracker, and meat ball. It doesn't mean those words should not be used when talking with or about their respective demographics, if they are not used in the way that is offensive

              "the man who said that probably did not mean it that way."


              I would say its pretty clear that he didn't

              "The last time I remember it was Tony Snow using it in a press conference. Just as yesterdays "sweety" faux pas by Obama does not mean that he devalues women."

              People tend to forget the context of the word (which is truly the important part) when they are rushing off to lynch someone ( oh look at that, a racial slur). Sorry everyone, Lynch was probably the most precise word available

              "Calling people fuckers probably wont score any points. . . "

              Yeah, but I see this as a boy who cried wolf, ultimately dampening peoples reaction to real racism
              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                Fri, May 16, 2008 - 6:33 PM
                > Yeah, but I see this as a boy who cried wolf, ultimately dampening peoples reaction to real racism

                i think this is the crux of our disagreement. First of all I emphatically agree that there are we don't want to trivialize discrimination and racially motivated violence by implying that careless use of a term that's known to be offensive is just as harmful. where we see things differently is that i think talking about racist speech actually makes people more aware of -- and likely to react to -- the other issues.

                in any case, racist speech as *a* form of racism, and it's important to talk about it. even when it's unintentional, it often reveals institutional biases: does the Republican candidates make this kind of mistake more often than Democrats? (What about the Libertarians and the Greens?) When people make mistakes, do they learn -- or repeat them?

                discussing situations like this also points out what certainly looks like illogical behavior. Nobody appointed me spokesperson for the black community but if you read even a few blogs it's clear that a lot of people are offended by this stuff. So why would a politician or a party throw away their chance for those votes?

                and if they're being that illogical here, where else do they have similar blind spots?

                > The same can be said of rice patty, banana, cracker, and meat ball.

                if you're using them as an epithet, any of these might be racist speech. i'd say politicians would be well advised to steer away from these terms in any context other than food.
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                  Fri, May 16, 2008 - 6:57 PM
                  "i think this is the crux of our disagreement. First of all I emphatically agree that there are we don't want to trivialize discrimination and racially motivated violence by implying that careless use of a term that's known to be offensive is just as harmful. where we see things differently is that i think talking about racist speech actually makes people more aware of -- and likely to react to -- the other issues."


                  But there was nothing racist about what he said, Jon. He never said Obama was a tar baby, he said the issue of immigration was.


                  "n any case, racist speech as *a* form of racism, and it's important to talk about it. even when it's unintentional, it often reveals institutional biases: does the Republican candidates make this kind of mistake more often than Democrats? (What about the Libertarians and the Greens?) When people make mistakes, do they learn -- or repeat them?"

                  But you ignore the fact that nothing racist was said


                  "discussing situations like this also points out what certainly looks like illogical behavior. Nobody appointed me spokesperson for the black community but if you read even a few blogs it's clear that a lot of people are offended by this stuff. So why would a politician or a party throw away their chance for those votes?"


                  But there is nothing racist about this, and only reveals the obsession some here have with race.


                  "if you're using them as an epithet, any of these might be racist speech. i'd say politicians would be well advised to steer away from these terms in any context other than food."


                  So you agree, that if used in their proper context, these words are benign?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                    Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:35 PM
                    i was trying to say that

                    a) we need to be able to talk about whether or not these terms are racist speech. you firmly assert no; others say yes; it's important to discuss, not just should "PC! PC!" whenever the subject comes up.

                    and

                    b) the term "tar baby" is viewed as offensive to a lot of people [whether or not you describe it as "racist" or "racially charged"]. discussing why politicians use terms like that is very revealing.

                    i don't think you responded to either of these points; you just repeated that in your view, it's not racist speech.
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                      Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:45 PM
                      "a) we need to be able to talk about whether or not these terms are racist speech. you firmly assert no; others say yes; it's important to discuss, not just should "PC! PC!" whenever the subject comes up."


                      I have asked numerous times why it is racist, when it is used in this context, and so far, no one has given me an answer. Well, besides the knee jerk variety. If people can't even properly support the claim then there is nothing really to discuss


                      "b) the term "tar baby" is viewed as offensive to a lot of people [whether or not you describe it as "racist" or "racially charged"]. discussing why politicians use terms like that is very revealing. "


                      How about it's a part of the english language, and most *normal* people not comb over everything they write to assure that it is purged of anything that resembles something offensive, no matter how silly such an interpretation would be.
                      • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                        Sat, May 17, 2008 - 7:29 AM
                        > I have asked numerous times why it is racist, when it is used in this context, and so far, no one has given me an answer.

                        Blue quoted and linked to discussions why it's viewed as offensive to many blacks. many people see repeated use -- or defense -- of terms that are known to be offensive to blacks as racist. How hard is that?

                        Heck, even Mitt Romney apologized when he used the term accidentally and was greated with outrage -- www.cbsnews.com/stories/20...51199.shtml

                        > How about it's a part of the english language, and most *normal* people not comb over everything they write to assure that it is purged of anything that resembles something offensive, no matter how silly such an interpretation would be.

                        i'm really glad my world is so different than yours. for me, "normal" people try not to inadvertantly say things that blacks -- or latinos, or Arabs, or women, gays, or transgendered people, etc. etc. -- find offensive. when they do, they apologize and try not to do it again.


                        • Unsu...
                           

                          Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                          Sat, May 17, 2008 - 7:39 AM
                          "Blue quoted and linked to discussions why it's viewed as offensive to many blacks. many people see repeated use -- or defense -- of terms that are known to be offensive to blacks as racist. How hard is that? "


                          So, do you find Banana, Meatball, or Rice Cake equally offensive?

                          "Heck, even Mitt Romney apologized when he used the term accidentally and was greated with outrage -"

                          Why the empty appeal to authority, Jon, can't you logically explain why using Tar Baby, in it's proper context, is offensive?


                          "i'm really glad my world is so different than yours. for me, "normal" people try not to inadvertantly say things that blacks -- or latinos, or Arabs, or women, gays, or transgendered people, etc. etc. -- find offensive. when they do, they apologize and try not to do it again. "


                          I live in a world where ignorence doesn't define what is proper. If someone has an issue with a word, that they don't understand, then how is that my problem?
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                            Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                            Sat, May 17, 2008 - 7:54 AM
                            <<can't you logically explain why using Tar Baby, in it's proper context, is offensive?>>

                            Plainly, the word has two meanings. It's a common slur in at least the south. I heard the word all the time in Texas and it was not describing a "sticky situation" I can assure you. He might have gotten away with it had Hillary been the Democrat in the discussion. But the racial overtones are there and to use it within a sentence of Obama is going to raise questions. I don't see any bad intent but it was, to say the least, a very poor choice of words.
                            • Unsu...
                               

                              Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                              Sat, May 17, 2008 - 8:10 AM
                              "Plainly, the word has two meanings."

                              No one is denying that. The problem is, that it wasn't used in that context, and to raise a scene about it, is only promoting ignorence.


                              "It's a common slur in at least the south. I heard the word all the time in Texas and it was not describing a "sticky situation" I can assure you. "

                              Yes, I grew up down the road from the Grand Dragon of the Klan, and my Step Father is black. I heard the word used in that context very often. But when it is used properly it is no more offensive then cracker, faggot, queer, or meatball

                              "He might have gotten away with it had Hillary been the Democrat in the discussion."


                              That is absurd, and correct


                              "But the racial overtones are there and to use it within a sentence of Obama is going to raise questions."

                              So why promote it, and inadvertently allow the media to frame this campaign, in their terms?


                              "I don't see any bad intent but it was, to say the least, a very poor choice of words."

                              Because the ignorence of the majority, and not because the phrase was used in the improper way
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                                Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                                Sat, May 17, 2008 - 8:13 AM
                                <<Because the ignorance of the majority, and not because the phrase was used in the improper way>>

                                I would submit that there comes a time when the "proper" use of the word is so obscured by its double meaning that it's best left unspoken.
                                • Unsu...
                                   

                                  Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                                  Sat, May 17, 2008 - 8:18 AM
                                  "I would submit that there comes a time when the "proper" use of the word is so obscured by its double meaning that it's best left unspoken."


                                  The beauty of this country is that "what is right and proper" is not defined by popular opinion
                    • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                      Sat, May 17, 2008 - 12:43 AM
                      OK, let's discuss whether the following words are racist speech, regardless of the context of how they're used:

                      albino
                      apple
                      banana
                      boogie man
                      burrito
                      chief
                      chigger
                      chink
                      colored
                      coon
                      cracker
                      dink
                      frog
                      ghost
                      gook
                      homey
                      jigger
                      jive
                      kite
                      kiwi
                      monkey
                      mutt
                      nappy
                      niggard
                      niggling
                      nip
                      oreo
                      snigger
                      spade
                      spook
                      tar baby
                      wasp
                      yellow
                      zipper
        • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

          Sat, May 17, 2008 - 2:41 AM
          <i'm saying that for a politician to use words that a group finds offensive is a pretty strong signal that he doesn't care about their votes. why would a politician do that?>

          The question is, did the guy KNOWINGLY know that phrase was culturally insensitive? We don't know what's in his heart, so why would pretend to know anything like that?

          <Honestly, I can't understand how you would think "Tar Baby" was used towards Obama, in this situation.>

          We don't know. I am doubting that he specifically meant to use that phrase in specifically in context to Obama.

          <in any case, racist speech as *a* form of racism, and it's important to talk about it. even when it's unintentional, it often reveals institutional biases: does the Republican candidates make this kind of mistake more often than Democrats?>

          Exactly. A white conservative that is only around white conservatives may not have the same kind of knowledge about this phrase to understand that it's not a smart thing to say. And, this happens more with republicans, because republicans are of late the party of bigotry and racism, so it's no surprise that he said this.


          • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

            Sat, May 17, 2008 - 7:38 AM
            > The question is, did the guy KNOWINGLY know that phrase was culturally insensitive? We don't know what's in his heart, so why would pretend to know anything like that?

            we don't know, but from the context it certainly seems like it was careless rather than intentional. a similar thing happened with Mitt Romney a couple of years ago www.cbsnews.com/stories/20...51199.shtml

            but really, with the number of times this has happened, you'd think that if the Republican party was interested in trying to more black votes (and more generally from anti-racists in the Latino, Asian, and white communities) they'd do something after this pattern.

            no matter whether or not they personally think these words are offensive, it's easy to learn not to use them -- look at how politicians of *all* parties have learned what tems they want to steer clear from in the middle east.

            and if they're not going to make the effort, they -- and their apologists -- should expect to continue to be challenged.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

              Sat, May 17, 2008 - 7:44 AM
              "but really, with the number of times this has happened, you'd think that if the Republican party was interested in trying to more black votes (and more generally from anti-racists in the Latino, Asian, and white communities) they'd do something after this pattern."


              Such the morally righteous person, Jon, where would all those poor African Americans be with out you to finger wag at the opposition?


              "no matter whether or not they personally think these words are offensive, it's easy to learn not to use them -- look at how politicians of *all* parties have learned what tems they want to steer clear from in the middle east."


              It seems some people find freedom and commonsense offensive, as well





    • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

      Fri, May 16, 2008 - 6:53 PM
      <It's almost like they don't care about blacks' (or anti-racists') feelings or opinions. >

      Not if it stands between them and financially raping the country. It's all about money and insinuation is just as good as fact in the political arena.
  • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

    Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:21 PM
    He did call the issue a tar baby and not Obama yet he used a charged word to make a point; So if he gets heat for it perhaps next time he'll choose a different way to say it. Some folks here did not like Obama sayin Sweety..............I hope they did not get all huffy here would be ironic huh....
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

      Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:28 PM
      "He did call the issue a tar baby and not Obama yet he used a charged word to make a point"


      So he is responsible for a bunch of idiots failing to grasp the proper meaning of the phrase?


      "So if he gets heat for it perhaps next time he'll choose a different way to say it. "

      That is simply censorship by the majority


      "Some folks here did not like Obama sayin Sweety..............I hope they did not get all huffy here would be ironic huh...."


      There wasn't even one thread on the topic, Shlow-mo
      • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

        Sat, May 17, 2008 - 7:41 AM
        > So he is responsible for a bunch of idiots failing to grasp the proper meaning of the phrase?

        Dustin, it seems to me that you're on one of the few people posting in this thread grasp the offensiveness of the phrase.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

          Sat, May 17, 2008 - 7:47 AM
          Jon, are you even aware that the term actually has its roots in African Mythology?
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

            Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:31 AM
            hey did you ever it at (little black) Sambo's in the 70's yummy pancakes and an interesting link from whence we came
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

              Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:38 AM
              No, but that sounds like an offensive racial stereo type is being used to sell pancakes, and not a phrase that some choose to use in an incorrect manner
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:45 AM
                I see that they whitened up Sambo but the backstory of America is that however enlightened we may be now we come from a history of brutal racism. So it is disengenuos to say ok fresh start---
                www.sambosrestaurant.com/
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                  Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:49 AM
                  "So it is disengenuos to say ok fresh start--"

                  Who said that? I am only asking people to use common sense when they try and define something as racist, and not so reactionary


                  PS I dont think there are any tigers in the Punjab, or Africa


                  PSS what is the connection between Indians and Pancakes, anyway?
          • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

            Sat, May 17, 2008 - 3:17 PM
            > Jon, are you even aware that the term actually has its roots in African Mythology?

            Yes, Dustin, I've read the sources quoted and linked to here which discuss how the term has gone from those roots to one that many people consider offensive.
            • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

              Sat, May 17, 2008 - 6:18 PM
              >> I've read the sources quoted and linked to here which discuss how the term has gone from those roots to one that many people consider offensive. <<

              well then. why don't you and the rest of the thought police grab a dictionary and use your little red pens to identify unacceptable words. you could then post the list of acceptable terms on some free speech website.
              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                Sat, May 17, 2008 - 6:23 PM
                Sade has a really good song about this. www.youtube.com/watch

                Granma came to see
                Something she could not believe
                How could her girl be
                So naive
                Tar baby, tar baby told
                The secret she conceived

                That big old smile of yours
                Could turn the wind into a song
                How could I have doubted
                Honey it's with me you belong

                Tar baby, tar baby
                I love you so

                Like a brand new blade
                You cut into my life
                Cut through two decades
                Like a hot coal on ice

                Tar baby, my tar baby
                It maybe was meant to be
                When I look at you
                I can't believe my eyes

                And with your magic
                I think you just might charm the birds out of the sky

                Tar baby, tar baby, tar baby
                Came good out of grief

                A golden thread inside of the web
                That I got caught in
                Oh, it's a lover's revenge, but out of the pain
                Come the best things you see

                You cut into my life
                You cut into my life (baby baby baby baby don't you know that)
                You cut into my life (I love you)
                You cut into my life

                La la la la la ooh
                You can turn the wind into a song
                La la la la la baby baby baby
                It's with me you belong
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

              Sun, May 18, 2008 - 3:32 PM
              So, Jon, is your issue then that the tar Baby denotes a clear difference in Skin Pigmentation, from a white person? Wouldn't this be expected from an African myth, or even one developed by the slaves in the south?
  • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

    Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:33 PM
    The sad thing is that Obama and his followers have been screaming "RACIST" at the top of their lungs so long, that pretty soon people might forget that there really is racism in the US.

    I mean here is this joker who has the nerve to claim that racism is NOT an endemic problem in the United States - but his entire campaign strategy seems to be based on calling anyone who doesn't support him a racist. What's up with that?
    • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

      Sun, May 18, 2008 - 12:47 AM
      "his entire campaign strategy seems to be based on calling anyone who doesn't support him a racist. What's up with that?"

      Seems to be in the same vein as Hillary's campaign calling anyone who doesn't support her a rapist.
      • I agree with Blue.

        Sun, May 18, 2008 - 1:45 AM
        I agree with Blue. In this case the word was inappropriate. There are simply too many racist connotations. But this may be because I am old enough to remember "Song of the South" The word evokes a time when blacks were almost always portrayed as being less then whites. It is a dated, Antediluvian word. Unless you are talking about Brer Rabbit, the use of the word shows a lack of awareness and class. a specially when applied to a black man. Meatball on the other hand is common food served in many restaurants today. How many actual tar babies have YOU seen. I think if you were to call an Italian man a Meatball, some one might object.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: I agree with Blue.

          Sun, May 18, 2008 - 2:24 AM
          Cornel makes a good point. It is a campaign and people are going to grab on to anything that they can to score political points. Hillary telegraphs so many entreaties to women to vote for her based on her genitalia. And, although Bill and Hillary may not be racist, they tried to score political points again and again by pointing out Obama's race and just how well Hillary does with white voters (know why would that be. . .). So fair, or unfair, Hill and Bill provided Obama supporters with a loop hole large enough to drive a 4 by 4 with gun racks through on the race issue. I also really like Leslee's post at age 34 I remember seeing a rerun of Song of the South at a theater in Rialto California and I looked up at the cartoon negro with big red lips running around the cream and turning it into butter at Sambos in Claremont California and asking my mom about it. I have also gotten the African American perspective from my cousin who is the son of my uncle a Ghanain sociologist and my aunt and loves to talk pollitics. I think the issue here is the politician in question is cultural ignorance willful or un-willful and if you surround yourself by only a certain type of people then you are not very well rounded and it leaks out ugly by using tar baby and Obama in adjoining sentences. And unfortunately because of an American anti intellectual streak sometimes we do not require that our politicians be all that smart. . .
          • Re: I agree with Blue.

            Sun, May 18, 2008 - 6:37 AM
            Exactly. Apparenty advisors repeatedly warned Bill Clinton that it wouldn't go over well if he did the Obama/Jackson comparison. He did -- and then repeatedly defended his use of it, going so far as to say "nobody cares about this". This of course looked particularly bad when you put it with the other racially charged remarks Clinton proxies were making about Obama clintonattacksobama.pbwiki.com/ ...

            Bill's series of remarks gave the impression that:
            1) he didn't care if he offended a lot of black voters. [remember, his advisors had told him this would happen]
            2) he hadn't heard the blacks who objected, or perhaps considered them "nobody"

            Think about it: if Hillary was getting even 25-30% of the black vote, an even smaller amount than Obama's getting of the "white working class vote", it would be a completely different race.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: I agree with Blue.

              Sun, May 18, 2008 - 8:09 AM
              "Bill's series of remarks gave the impression that:
              1) he didn't care if he offended a lot of black voters. [remember, his advisors had told him this would happen]
              2) he hadn't heard the blacks who objected, or perhaps considered them "nobody""


              It is probably due to the Clintons realizing that most African Americans were going to vote for Obama, due to race. And so, decided to try and appeal to the other side of that card


              "Think about it: if Hillary was getting even 25-30% of the black vote, an even smaller amount than Obama's getting of the "white working class vote", it would be a completely different race."


              But after SC, and even before if you acknowledged race as an issue, there was little doubt that would happen
          • Re: I agree with Blue.

            Sun, May 18, 2008 - 7:30 AM
            I never thought I'd agree with you. But, yes, it's politics. Anything and everything that gives a candidate leverage over another is fair game. I don't like it. It's what allowed gay marriage to distract the populous from the approach of the economic Titanic. But it *is* politics as practiced today in the US.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: I agree with Blue.

            Sun, May 18, 2008 - 7:42 AM
            "I remember seeing a rerun of Song of the South at a theater in Rialto California and I looked up at the cartoon negro with big red lips running around the cream and turning it into butter at Sambos in Claremont California and asking my mom about it. "

            You do realize that the Uncle Remus tales were the first time that African American culture was introduced into a larger "white" society. Because Disney decided to portray black people in a style that some thought was negative, does not make the series of stories racist.


          • Unsu...
             

            Re: I agree with Blue.

            Sun, May 18, 2008 - 8:03 AM
            "I think the issue here is the politician in question is cultural ignorance willful or un-willful and if you surround yourself by only a certain type of people then you are not very well rounded and it leaks out ugly by using tar baby and Obama in adjoining sentences."


            Zek, do you think Obama lacks the ability to understand the proper usage of the phrase, and, that in this instance, it was not directed at him, or used as an insult?
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: I agree with Blue.

          Sun, May 18, 2008 - 7:26 AM
          "I agree with Blue. In this case the word was inappropriate. There are simply too many racist connotations. But this may be because I am old enough to remember "Song of the South" The word evokes a time when blacks were almost always portrayed as being less then whites."


          Yeah, if we don't acknowledge that past, it's like it never happened.


          "Unless you are talking about Brer Rabbit, the use of the word shows a lack of awareness and class. a specially when applied to a black man."


          It comes from African American culture. Is the problem that it denotes a difference in skin pigmentation, even though, in the origenal story, it does not do so in a negative manner? Earth to, Leslee, black people do have a different skin color then white people. Sticking your head in the sand and ignoring it wont ever make it go away

        • Unsu...
           

          Re: I agree with Blue.

          Sun, May 18, 2008 - 7:44 AM
          "Meatball on the other hand is common food served in many restaurants today. How many actual tar babies have YOU seen. I think if you were to call an Italian man a Meatball, some one might object."

          Tar baby is a common phrase, and is used by many people today. How many actual tar babies do you think people saw when the original story was developed? I think if you were to call an African American man a Tar Baby, someone might object
      • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

        Sun, May 18, 2008 - 6:17 PM
        >> Seems to be in the same vein as Hillary's campaign calling anyone who doesn't support her a rapist. <<

        Racism and sexism are both very much alive and well - and they are both very much "endemic" problems. But has Hillary Clinton or her supporters tried to claim that states in which Obama does better are reactionary strongholds of sexism?

        This is a very real problem for Obama. He has arrogantly ignored places like West Virginia and Kentucky - while his supporters have pushed the narrative that these are states inhabitted solely by slack-jawed racist hillbillies. And even before he lost big in Pennsylvania he was caught red-handed peddling his own idiotic "sociological analysis" about why certain groups of white people are just congenitally stupid and therefore won't vote for him.

        All this from the great unifier, the man who is supposed to lead us to the post racial future.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

          Sun, May 18, 2008 - 6:36 PM
          "This is a very real problem for Obama. He has arrogantly ignored places like West Virginia and Kentucky - while his supporters have pushed the narrative that these are states inhabitted solely by slack-jawed racist hillbillies. And even before he lost big in Pennsylvania he was caught red-handed peddling his own idiotic "sociological analysis" about why certain groups of white people are just congenitally stupid and therefore won't vote for him.

          All this from the great unifier, the man who is supposed to lead us to the post racial future. "


          Comments from the floor?
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            offline 32

            Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

            Sun, May 18, 2008 - 6:52 PM
            <<Comments from the floor?>>

            Presidential candidates regularly skip states they feel they are not competitive in. They only come to California to raise money it seems. He'll reach out the working class voters but that is Hillary's strength right now. The plain fact is he doesn't need to win these states for the nomination so he skips them.
            • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

              Sun, May 18, 2008 - 9:21 PM
              """""""he doesn't need to win these states for the nomination so he skips them.""""""""


              that's nice to know a Presidential candidate doesn't need certain states...that sounds like he couldn't give 2 shits about those states and that you think it's okay that he doesn't.... now I know why some people think the electoral college is a bad idea, because all of the "lesser" states that a presidential candidate "doesn't need" would get left even further behind than they already are in favor of huge states like Cali and NY....how about we just do without the votes from all other states and let Cali and NY run the show....fuck everyone else.
            • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

              Mon, May 19, 2008 - 8:33 AM
              >> Presidential candidates regularly skip states they feel they are not competitive in. <<

              By why was Obama "not competitive" in West Virginia? Even Michael Dukakis carried that state in 1988 - and it was one of only 6 states to vote against Ronald Reagan and for Jimmy Carter in 1980. In fact, as Hillary Clinton pointed out, every Democrat who has been elected to the White House since 1916 has carried that state.

              And Obama's victory lap would be a lot more convincing if he wasn't simultaneously getting creamed in so many primaries.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

          Sun, May 18, 2008 - 10:12 PM

          << And even before he lost big in Pennsylvania he was caught red-handed peddling his own idiotic "sociological analysis" about why certain groups of white people are just congenitally stupid and therefore won't vote for him.>>

          really? i missed that completely, do you have a link?
  • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

    Sun, May 18, 2008 - 9:34 PM
    BTW Home...

    You might want to rethink posting a title that is completely false,,,,whether or not you agree with the use of the word 'tarbaby'...don't lie and say that he called Obama a tarbaby, because that is completely false and you know it...
    but I'm sure you knew that saying "Hispanic voting issue called a tarbaby" would not get a reaction, so you lie to get some hits on your thread...

    Meanwhile the thread I posted about South Africans attacking and murdering refugees from Zimbabwe in a fit of racism and nationalism doesn't get any feedback at all...

    but this dumb shit has people's panties in a wad...sometimes I don't get this tribe.
    • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

      Mon, May 19, 2008 - 12:20 AM
      >> You might want to rethink posting a title that is completely false,,,,whether or not you agree with the use of the word 'tarbaby'...don't lie and say that he called Obama a tarbaby, because that is completely false and you know it... <<

      best post of the thread.

      >> Meanwhile the thread I posted about South Africans attacking and murdering refugees from Zimbabwe in a fit of racism and nationalism doesn't get any feedback at all... <<

      meaningful posts get buried. sorry I missed it.
  • Getting reeeeally weary of the whining outrage every time some honkey motherfucker calls a spade a spade.

    "Meh meh meh people find it offensive" - yeah?

    When someone starts addressing things that I find offensive, maybe I'll let you dumb the language down past "utterly stupid" and right into full-on Orwellian "cretinous". You need to be ready to pay me big time, though, PC assholes. Big time.

    Frankly, this kind of bullshit undermines all attempts to actually mitigate racism. This is not racism, this is sheer stupidity. I reject it, and I sternly disapprove of ridiculous worthless buffoons that strain to validate such "issues". "Some people" are offended by a lot of things, because "most people" are fucking stupid.

    I'm so sick of PC idiots that they have now become my new "fake Christian", my new "Republican".

    You, PC assholes one and all, are the new "fascists", the new evil. I will destroy you. And I will win. Everybody hates you, and with very good reason. You are the enemy of thought, and the champion of the stupid, the malingerer, the issue-baiter, the self-righteous thug - you are all of society's ills expressed as one uniquely disgusting morsel of proud imbecility. Please, for the love of all that is good about humanity, rehabilitate your mind or stab it repeatedly. Whichever you choose, choose today.





    "We must abandon the prevalent belief in the superior wisdom of the ignorant."
    • Unsu...
       
      "Frankly, this kind of bullshit undermines anyone who wishes to actually mitigate racism. This is not racism, this is sheer stupidity. I reject it, and I sternly disapprove of ridiculous worthless buffoons that strain to validate such "issues". "Some people" are offended by a lot of things, because "most people" are fucking stupid. "


      That is the rub, man. People here cries of racism, over shit like this, then eventually they stop listening.
      • It should be considered disturbance of the peace when someone raises public alarm over something like this, and should result in 30-90 days, just as if you yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater.

        In fact, it should be worse, because the harm done to groups and individuals over the course of years as a result of this foolishness is truly incalculable.

        Let's return to our usual *directly* racist statements of mindless hatred, please? At least they're genuine. You know: Jews / Palestinians are dogs or parasites, Italians are in 'the mob', black women have big angry butts, white people can't understand hardship, &c. The completely bullshit untrue stuff that never raises an eyebrow with this gang. Murder? War? Starvation? Global crises? Chinese earthquake? Pshaw~! We're all concerned with how offensive ancient African folklore is to modern Americans whose hue is less pale than "Morning Taupe".

        "Tarbaby" offends you? Fine: if any of you ever use the words "eggplant", "grudge", "clown", "broom", "spigot", or "heathen" - EVER AGAIN - in any context whatsoever, you are an evil, intolerant bigot. "Moo moo moo?" OH you didn't KNOW those were epithets of divisive scorn, huh? WHY NOT?

        grrrr
      • >>That is the rub, man. People here cries of racism, over shit like this, then eventually they stop listening.<<

        It is my assumption that this is precisely what happened in the USA between 1980 and 2000. How else could so many people get the idea that "racism doesn't exist here anymore"?

        Racism flourishes because we refuse to face it responsibly. We take ridiculous measures - right up there with preaching "abstinence" while spreading misinformation instead of sex education, waging a "war on terror" which increases terrorism by leaps and bounds and a 'war on drugs' which has led to a privatization of the imprisonment industry and a resultant wildfire growth in prison population in the US (25% of the globe's inmate population) while allowing our infrastructure to fall to utter shit.

        Pretending that silencing speech is an effective tool against racism - or any other issue - is an ancient delusion that history has dealt harshly with, *invariably*. Silencing speech empowers the suppressed and validates their agenda. It also punishes simple humanity. It is villainy; the people who endorse it and practice it are villains.
        • It's interesting to me that these vanguards of suppression are so quick to spill epithets and divisive scorn out of one side of the mouth, and then accuse people who disagree with them of "trolling" out of the other, all the while assuring themselves that they are, somehow, interested in freedom and equality and doing seemingly everything in their power to embolden racists, sexists, classists, and generic evil by speaking *from within those frames* with invariant precision, constantly portraying their pet "victims" as defenseless - too weak to fight their own battles, too stupid to formulate a cogent argument, too frightened to face the people that are supposedly harming them with speech.

          It's not too much of a mystery, in this climate, that USA's people have become so inept at facing the least ambiguous threats to freedom and justice imaginable. Instead of learning to apply that "the American Way" ideal to ever more sectors of the American population, so-called 'liberals' have instead applied the chilling and draconian tactics of USA's historic enemies to their *own neighbors*.

          PC is a disease of the soul. It is equal to racism as a societal ill. It is just as embraced and lionized as racism was in the early 20th century. It is just as irrational and just as harmful. I despise it.

          I'm not at all surprised that it's proponents can't seem to face this rebuttal. PC - just like racism - is a cover for cowardice.

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