GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

topic posted Thu, May 15, 2008 - 9:23 AM by  Home
www.politico.com/blogs/the..._baby.html

Tar baby?

In a 20-page memo on GOP electoral woes, Rep. Tom Davis (R-Va.) repeatedly misspells Barack Obama’s name – it’s one R, congressman, not two -- and then manages to use the racially charged term “tar baby” in a paragraph about Obama and immigration.

“Remember,” Davis writes, “Hispanic voters are a swing group in this election and future elections. John McCain, being from a border state, may be out of sync with many Republicans but he has standing among Hispanics. Barrack Obama has not made the sale to Hispanic voters. Thus, this issue is a tar baby for anyone who touches it, with land mines everywhere.”

The party of bigots!
posted by:
Home
California
  • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

    Thu, May 15, 2008 - 9:30 AM
    “Remember,” Davis writes, “Hispanic voters are a swing group in this election and future elections. John McCain, being from a border state, may be out of sync with many Republicans but he has standing among Hispanics. Barrack Obama has not made the sale to Hispanic voters. Thus, this issue is a tar baby for anyone who touches it, with land mines everywhere.”


    Shut the Fuck up~!!! Talk about mindless PC postering
    • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

      Thu, May 15, 2008 - 9:41 AM
      <<Thus, this issue is a tar baby for anyone who touches it, with land mines everywhere>>

      To be fair, he was calling immigration policy a tar baby, not Obama. Probably a bit of a Freudian slip.
      • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

        Thu, May 15, 2008 - 10:20 AM
        why was it a freudian slip

        tar baby is a oft used term..........
        • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

          Thu, May 15, 2008 - 10:24 AM
          <<tar baby is a oft used term..........>>

          A very pregnant one.
          • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

            Fri, May 16, 2008 - 3:54 PM
            Although the term's provenance arose in African folklore, some now consider "tar baby" to have negative connotations revolving around pejorative images of African-Americans.[2] Specific reasons why the term developed negative racial aspects are difficult to identify. In recent years, several politicians who have publicly used the term have encountered some controversy, mocking, and censure from African-American civil rights leaders, members of the popular daily media, and other politicians.

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_baby

            ************

            To use the term in conjunction with speaking of an African American is an insult in African American culture. The use of the term in any case is despicable.
            • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

              Fri, May 16, 2008 - 4:01 PM
              He probably saw Disney's Song of the South as a kid and nobody ever told him the connotation. Some politicians are not the sharpest tools in the shed. They just have people skills and perhaps not language. Like the poor sap who used "Niggardly" and lost his job. If you are going to be a politician a rudimentary knowledge of the english language helps. Otherwise you might become the next Macaca star on youtube
              niggardly link
              www.cnn.com/US/9901/27/word.flap/
              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                Fri, May 16, 2008 - 4:09 PM
                Macaca, was definitely used as an insult, which doesn't compare to using a questionable term, in the same sentence that one mentioned an African American politician. This thread just highlights the neurotic nature of many in this tribe
              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                Fri, May 16, 2008 - 4:11 PM
                So basically, we can deem any word as racially charged?


                "An aide to the District of Columbia's mayor resigned Tuesday citing pressure from controversy over his use of the word "niggardly," which some deemed a racial slur.

                But even as he stepped down, David Howard, who is white, said the word does not have any racial connotation"
              • niggardly

                Fri, May 16, 2008 - 8:41 PM
                <Like the poor sap who used "Niggardly" and lost his job.>

                Wow. That's fucking insane.

                <If you are going to be a politician a rudimentary knowledge of the english language helps.>

                On the contrary, this shows it hurts.

                When I was in college around 2001 this word was also in the news, and I remember my ERS professor (who's a Black African-American) went out of his way to explain what niggardly meant, and that it wasn't a racially offensive word.
                • Re: niggardly

                  Tue, May 20, 2008 - 3:32 AM
                  Wait a minute.

                  This thread is too long for what it all amounts to in the end.


                  "Sicks and stones".


                  Like Nike, "just do it".

                  Thread drift is a bitch but I'm just getting here after seeing the OP for awhile.



                  And what's "niggardly"?



                  I have to re-read this thread a few times.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: niggardly

                    Wed, May 28, 2008 - 3:36 AM
                    <And what's "niggardly"?>

                    stingy
    • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

      Fri, May 16, 2008 - 5:13 PM

      Um, it's not at all PC and racially ignorant, but racist?

      This is the definition of what a "tar baby" is: Tar-Baby was a doll made of tar and turpentine, used to entrap Br'er Rabbit in the second of the Uncle Remus stories. The more that Br'er Rabbit fought the Tar-Baby, the more entangled he became. In contemporary usage, a tar baby refers to any "sticky situation" that is only aggravated by efforts to solve it.
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tar_baby

      I'd not say it, but that does not mean that it's specifically meant to be insulting. And, in the use I just read, it was not at all as such unless this person MEANT for it to be a bigoted/racist term. Did he? Or, was he just careless and ignorant?

      <tar baby is a oft used term..........>

      Yes, but from those that do not know that they are being racially insensitive or who don't care that they are being racially insensitive.
      • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

        Fri, May 16, 2008 - 5:17 PM
        "I'd not say it, but that does not mean that it's specifically meant to be insulting. And, in the use I just read, it was not at all as such unless this person MEANT for it to be a bigoted/racist term. Did he? Or, was he just careless and ignorant?"


        Honestly, I can't understand how you would think "Tar Baby" was used towards Obama, in this situation.
      • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

        Fri, May 16, 2008 - 7:17 PM
        Toni Morrison: Contemporary Critical Essays
        By Jill L. Matus page 93-94

        Explains why "tar baby" is an insult in the African American community.

        books.google.com/books

        Bottom line is it demeans us all.
        • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

          Fri, May 16, 2008 - 7:19 PM
          "Explains why "tar baby" is an insult in the African American community."


          And cracker is in the white community, or meatball in the Italian American. It doesn't mean these words are offensive if used in the proper context.
          • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

            Fri, May 16, 2008 - 7:48 PM
            I should probably just let this lie but it's kinda in train wreck mode by now --

            Please give an example of the "proper" use of the term tar baby.
            • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

              Fri, May 16, 2008 - 7:55 PM
              "Please give an example of the "proper" use of the term tar baby."



              Sure Blue. From the original post:

              "John McCain, being from a border state, may be out of sync with many Republicans but he has standing among Hispanics. Barrack Obama has not made the sale to Hispanic voters. Thus, this issue is a tar baby for anyone who touches it, with land mines everywhere.” "

              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                Fri, May 16, 2008 - 8:01 PM
                >> Sure Blue. From the original post: <<

                you get the feeling that a large portion of this tribe hold very passionate beliefs about things they know nothing about.
                • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                  Fri, May 16, 2008 - 8:37 PM
                  luckily we have people like Yoni here to set us straight.

                  i am very familiar with the story where this comes from but never considered the possibility that term might have some racist connotations.
                  if you are not living with the racism that might victimize you at any minute, it is hard to judge the relative demerits of using this term. . .
                  so, if you are some jiveass honky, just shut the fuck up ( just joking ) . . .

                  we should all be sensitive to others. . .period. the english language is the richest language in the world, with the largest vocabulary by far and with many cultural traditions to draw upon. particularly those in the public eye should be very careful what they choose to say.

                  i can't tell this man what to do, but making a sincere apology never hurts.

                  i have only scarcely felt any sort of racism against me. . .i know that my great grandparents probably did. but i would sure love to live in a world where racism doesn't exist. . .wouldn't you?????

                  yeah? but probably not as much as some who faces the possibility of racism, large or small. . .every single day. .
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                    Fri, May 16, 2008 - 8:47 PM
                    "if you are not living with the racism that might victimize you at any minute, it is hard to judge the relative demerits of using this term."


                    It is racist only when used in the proper context.


                    "we should all be sensitive to others. . .period. the english language is the richest language in the world, with the largest vocabulary by far and with many cultural traditions to draw upon. particularly those in the public eye should be very careful what they choose to say. "

                    Or people should just except the fact that living in a free society comes with the responsibility of accepting that you will not always be catered to


                    "i can't tell this man what to do, but making a sincere apology never hurts. "


                    Apology for what and to whom?


                    "i have only scarcely felt any sort of racism against me. . .i know that my great grandparents probably did. but i would sure love to live in a world where racism doesn't exist. . .wouldn't you????? "


                    Yeah, and some want to live in a world where it rains raspberry sherbert


                    "yeah? but probably not as much as some who faces the possibility of racism, large or small. . .every single day. . "


                    A good way to start dealing with a problem is by defining what it is, and what it is not. This is a clear case of what is not
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                    Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:09 PM
                    <i would sure love to live in a world where racism doesn't exist. . .wouldn't you?????>

                    If that's the case you should be arguing against ignorance in regards to racial issues, rather than promoting it. How does it help any racial group when you send the message it's okay for that group to be perceived as ignorant and hypersensitive based on that ignorance? Bullshit like this makes racism worse.
                    • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                      Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:10 PM
                      Great explanation, Scott
                      • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                        Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:15 PM
                        goodness! you both seem so offended by even the mildest opinions! i wonder why THAT is the case?
                        • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                          Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:20 PM
                          I think we are defending by people trying to define something as racist, that is clearly not. Maybe if you try to explain to us *how* it is racist to call an inescapable trap a tar baby, then we might be more willing to see your side. But all we are getting in this thread is its racist because your masters told you so.
                          • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                            Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:57 PM
                            >> Maybe if you try to explain to us *how* it is racist to call an inescapable trap a tar baby, then we might be more willing to see your side. <<

                            let me give it a stab. you see "racism" has little to do with racial prejudice. you know having it in for someone because of their skin color. nope. it's evolved to a new stage where people are considered racist if they happen to say something that is "perceived" as racist. so it has nothing to do with actual intent and everything to do with control.

                            I can speak from experience when I was reprimanded at work years ago because someone "felt" I was being racist when I used the term "prejudice" outside of a racial context. luckily I am a minority so that bullshit didn't stick. I sure would have hated to have been some pasty-faced cracker trying to defend himself against that kind of stupidity.

                            but the best part is that people are foisting their prejudice on others and seeing things because of their own hangups. but the conversation has mutated to a point where you can't even point that out. you're guilty period. if you think the accusation is idiotic you're even more guilty. welcome to thunderdome.
                            • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                              Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:37 AM
                              < it's evolved to a new stage where people are considered racist if they happen to say something that is "perceived" as racist. so it has nothing to do with actual intent and everything to do with control.>

                              The use of racial slurs at the highest level of authority signifies how much racism has become part of American culture. It's a part I'd prefer not to have.

                              Usage of racial slurs by the highest level of authority also lends legitimacy to the term.

                              Use of *a* racist slur doesn't particularly signify a racist. It does signify the comfort level which the speaker has using the term. That signifies a pervasive attitude of society accepting racism as the natural order of things. THAT is the larger issue. And THAT is why responsible top level officials think before they speak.

                              Just because it used to be common phraseology doesn't mean it has to be now. Politicians do not say things like:

                              chink in the armor
                              we were gypped
                              pardon my French (not a race I know)
                              shuck and jive (remember Ed Randell?)
                              squaw
                              wooden indian
                              mexican standoff

                              So why condone usage of this slur aimed at African American girls?

                              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                                Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:43 AM
                                "The use of racial slurs at the highest level of authority signifies how much racism has become part of American culture. It's a part I'd prefer not to have."


                                Is it racist to use the word meatball?

                                "Usage of racial slurs by the highest level of authority also lends legitimacy to the term. "


                                This would be correct if an actual slur was used


                                "Use of *a* racist slur doesn't particularly signify a racist. It does signify the comfort level which the speaker has using the term. That signifies a pervasive attitude of society accepting racism as the natural order of things. THAT is the larger issue. And THAT is why responsible top level officials think before they speak."


                                Please, Blue, you keep ignoring this fundamental question. How is using Tar Baby, in its proper context, racist?


                                "Just because it used to be common phraseology doesn't mean it has to be now. Politicians do not say things like:"


                                Because, in its intended form, there is no connotation to race or ethnicity
                              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                                Sat, May 17, 2008 - 2:49 PM

                                you're probably too indoctrinated to be open to reason but I'll give it a try.

                                words aren't racist. it's the intent that matters. you see real racists use words to hurt and diminish other people. but "pardon my french" or "mexican standoff?" sorry charlie. only upper and middle class kids with a chip on their privileged shoulder would bother to wast the effort to get all worked up over crap like that.

                                >> So why condone usage of this slur aimed at African American girls? <<

                                why try to intimate that I'm condoning a slur aimed at african american girls? unless you're giving into the tried and true tactic of manipulating the conversation in order to make me look like a racist for disagreeing with you.

                                "tar baby" is a word in the lexicon. it has a definition and a usage. from what I gleaned from yet another non-issue we're debating on this tribe, it wasn't use to insult anyone. but the fact is that because of your politics, you see advantage in beating this for all it's worth. I guess this kind of crap works or people like you wouldn't do it. but sorry. I'm not white enough or guilty enough to be intimidated by your cynical tactics.
                              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                                Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:25 PM
                                <chink in the armor>

                                What's wrong with this? Chink has totally different meanings unrelated to race or ethnicity.

                                >we were gypped
                                >pardon my French

                                ...though these ones directly link a negative behavior with specific ethnic groups.

                                >shuck and jive (remember Ed Randell?)

                                Not familiar with this one.

                                >squaw

                                Apparently there's been some disinformation about the etymology of this word. It's definitely 'racial', but is it necessarily a slur?.

                                >wooden indian

                                How is this used in speech?

                                >mexican standoff

                                Why is this any more insulting than describing something as a Pyrrhic victory or a Waterloo?
                                • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                                  Sun, May 18, 2008 - 12:55 AM
                                  >>What's wrong with this? Chink has totally different meanings unrelated to race or ethnicity. <<

                                  it's wrong because the kid that posted it doesn't like the way it sounds. which I guess is reason enough to qualify the word as racist.
              • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:14 AM
                I guess that means there's a proper use for N***** too. Cause that's equivalent to tar baby. It was used by whites in the old south to describe young black girls. It wasn't a compliment. It was an outright racial slur.

                The bottom line is, and I'll speak up so you can hear me: THERE IS ***NO*** PROPER USE FOR THE TERM TAR BABY. Use of that term by anyone, much more a supposed political leader is offensive and despicable.
                • Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                  Sat, May 17, 2008 - 10:28 AM
                  "I guess that means there's a proper use for N***** too"

                  Nope, the only use of the word nigger is the popular one. Look in any dictionary


                  "Cause that's equivalent to tar baby"

                  No, tar baby has its roots in African American Folklore, and ultimately African Mythology. Though the word does have another meaning, due to it being high jacked by the less intelligent. The same is true for meatball, queer, fag, banana, and cracker. Do you want to ban these words, as well?

                  "It wasn't a compliment. It was an outright racial slur."


                  The the original meaning of the phrase is something completely different, and in this instance, was used correctly


                  "The bottom line is, and I'll speak up so you can hear me: THERE IS ***NO*** PROPER USE FOR THE TERM TAR BABY."

                  Yes there is, just look at the origenal post. If you find it personally offensive, then may be you need to ask yourself why. You seem to have some serious racial hang-ups that you need to address


                  "Use of that term by anyone, much more a supposed political leader is offensive and despicable."

                  Only for an idiot, who has no common sense


                  Blue, reading can help with the above
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: GOP rep calls Obama Tar Baby.

                    Sat, May 17, 2008 - 11:39 AM
                    If you remember it was me that did the legwork of looking up tar baby and I provided a few links on the subject. Your statement insinuating I hadn't read up about the subject is misguided.

                    So here's some more on the N word: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger for which there is no proper use either. It's equally offensive coming out of the mouths of any race.

                    Further, my extended family is of mixed race origin. issues with race? No. Issues with institutionalized racism at the highest levels of government.

                    I worked in marketing for 6 years. It was enough to know that you don't need to say someone is this or that. All you have to do is use their name in the same sentence and the picture gets implanted in the mind. It's the basic psychology of selling. You implant positive connections with your product to increase sales.

                    At the same time you eliminate negative connections to keep your product in a favorable light. This was such a huge principle of marketing that companies used to pay people to surf chat rooms (pre blogs) and bulletin boards to report on how their product was viewed by the public.

                    If you don't think the point got across to the "right" people then why did Kevin James shout "well if he didn't say Obama, he should have"? Bush knew exactly what he was doing. He's the master at imply-i-zizing.

                    bottom line is this racism of any type has no place in modern society. Whether or not the term originates in Africa (yes there are Africans who are racist against other Africans) or not we must, as a society, move beyond the concept or the condoning of racism in any form.