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[I'm not a supporter of the Socialist Workers Party who put out the following article, but I thought this article was good and raises important points. -Steven Argue]
Liberals remain silent after Letterman’s antiwoman jokes
(front page)
www.themilitant.com/2009/732...2504.html
BY CINDY JAQUITH
Liberal politicians and columnists have been virtually silent on the reactionary barrage of “jokes” about Alaska governor Sarah Palin and her daughters featured on David Letterman’s “Late Show.”
Palin, who was the Republican candidate for vice president in 2008, visited New York recently and went to a Yankees baseball game with her 14-year-old daughter Willow. In Letterman’s comedy routine June 8 he said, “One awkward moment for Sarah Palin at the Yankee game during the seventh inning. Her daughter was knocked up by Alex Rodriguez.” The next night he pursued this line, saying the hardest part of the New York trip was “keeping Eliot Spitzer away from her daughter.”
Letterman also did a “Ten Top Highlights of Sarah Palin’s Trip to New York.” Highlight number two was: “Bought makeup at Bloomingdale’s to update her ‘slutty flight attendant’ look.”
Palin responded in an interview with Matt Lauer on the “Today Show” June 12. “My first thought was, ‘Hey, don’t disparage flight attendants. They work hard—we love them,’” she said.
Palin called the “joke” about her daughter “a degrading comment about a young woman.” To make jokes about “statutory rape,” she said, is “a sad commentary on where we are as a culture, as a society to chuckle and laugh through comments such as he made the other night.”
Double standard
The Alaska governor pointed to the “double standard” followed by the media and Hollywood. “Remember in the campaign,” she noted, “Barack Obama said the family’s off limits… . Everybody adhered to that… . They haven’t done that on the other side of the ticket and it has continued to this day.”
Readers of most liberal newspapers were not even aware of the antiwoman remarks by Letterman until many days afterward. The June 10 New York Times carried a story headlined, “Letterman Reaches a Deal with CBS to Extend ‘Late Show.’” It did not mention the Yankees game “jokes” of the show’s previous two nights. A one-paragraph note in the “Arts, Briefly” column in the June 11 Times—headlined “Letterman Leads Late-Night Ratings”—also ignored the “jokes,” which had been running for three nights now. Other media downplayed the story, too.
Finally, on June 13, the Times printed an Associated Press dispatch reporting the controversy and speculating that Palin’s response “may have inadvertently given Letterman a platform at a time when it is most valuable.”
Letterman responded on the air June 10 to the objections of the Palin family by provocatively retelling each “joke” again to gales of laughter and rounds of applause. He insisted he wasn’t talking about 14-year-old Willow but her 18-year-old sister Bristol, “the girl who actually—excuse me, but—was knocked up is now 18 years old.” He muttered that maybe the Yankee stadium routine was in bad taste, but not the “slutty flight attendant” line. “I kind of like that joke,” he said.
Letterman finally issued an apology for the joke June 15 but continued to say it was “misunderstood.”
‘Where is feminist outrage’?
FOX News host Greta Van Susteren replayed the Letterman shows and asked, “So where is the feminist outrage over this? We called Ms. magazine. They had no comment. We asked the National Organization for Women to send someone to appear on our show. They declined but then added Letterman to its Web site’s ‘Media Hall of Shame.’”
A NOW statement criticizing Letterman was posted to the “Media Hall of Shame” June 11. It ended with an attack on conservatives who have protested the comedian’s remarks. “NOW hopes that all the conservatives who are fired up about sexism in the media lately will join us in calling out sexism when it is directed at women who aren’t professed conservatives,” it said.
One of the very few liberal voices in the media to denounce Letterman is Mika Brzezinski, one of the hosts of the “Morning Joe” talk show. “I wonder if it was the kid of Al Gore or Bill Clinton when he was president, or the Obamas, if that joke would ever be told,” she commented.
Neither Barack nor Michelle Obama has said a word about the Letterman show. Nor has Vice President Joseph Biden, or William or Hillary Clinton. No leading Republican Party figure has spoken out either.
Neither has any liberal capitalist figure or media commented on the anti-working-class character of Letterman’s jokes. At various times since Palin became a national figure, Letterman has quipped that “she looks like the flight attendant who won’t give you a second can of Pepsi… . Like the waitress at the coffee shop who draws a little smiley face on your check. Have a nice day… . She looks like the lady at the bakery who yells out, ‘44! 44! 45!’”
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 8:21 AMYes, it's interesting to watch some of the totally sexist remarks "enlightened liberals" will make about Palin and her gender.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 8:30 AMWhat's not to like about the SWP? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 8:38 AMSWP???
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 8:53 AM
They are a strange little outfit with lots of problems. Yet, they were once a good organization, splitting from the Communist Party in opposition to Stalin and leading the 1934 Minneapolis General strike. To list what is wrong with the SWP today would take a lot of time, but two of their biggest problems are that they abandoned any real form of internal democracy in their party and they have abandoned Trotskyism.
The SWP’s abandonment of Trotskyism goes hand-in-hand with their support for the Islamic Revolution in Iran and support for just about any forces in the third world fighting against U.S. imperialism, no matter how reactionary. In addition, their trade union policy consists of merely cheering on strikes as the trade union bureaucracy leads one strike after another to failure, instead of putting forward winning class struggle strategies as was the earlier tradition of the SWP. On the question of racism they adopted support for Black Nationalism, yet they opposed one of the best Black nationalist groups, the Black Panther Party, and rejected the alternative to Black nationalism that I support which is called revolutionary integrationism. To me the SWP is a strange little group, ever shrinking, where most of the members have voted with their feet and walked out the door. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 9:02 AM
But, as this article shows, they still get it right now and then. In my opinion, this a pretty good articles raising the important point that Letterman's "jokes" are antiwoman and anti-working-class. I also like how the article doesn't let the Democrats, the other party of capitalism, war, racism, sexism, and homophobia, off the hook.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 5:42 PM<The SWP’s abandonment of Trotskyism goes hand-in-hand with their support for the Islamic Revolution in Iran and support for just about any forces in the third world fighting against U.S. imperialism, no matter how reactionary.>
Seems like two peas in a pod, Mr. "Argue".
<In my opinion, this a pretty good articles raising the important point that Letterman's "jokes" are antiwoman and anti-working-class.>
Anti-woman? No. Anti-working class? Who knows, but they should be able to take a joke.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 5:55 PMthe interesting thing with Freud and his successors is that they have been fertilized by money because there have been and are people who are distressed emotionally and need to sort it all out. Freud's theories while not accepted today provided an excellent ground for analysis and development. . .departments of psychology developed and money was provided for people to expand upon, reject and revise and to generate new theories of human behavior and healing.
now, there are some parallels between freud and marx, but unfortunately the universities that provided jobs for marxist thinkers rarely allowed room for rejection, revision or provided fertile ground for new theories. there have been new social, political and economic theories, but they are stunted compared to the rapid and dynamic growth of psychological concepts.
we can blame the capitalist systems that were waged in a bitter struggle with the marxists states for suppressing, or at least not encouraging the dynamic development of socialist thought. . .but people in this country who are still stuck in these old and dysfunctional modes of analysis aren't really contributing a whole lot. i wish they would figure that out and break out of the old patterns.
would anyone really like it if the ideas of Freud were still considered writ? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 11:53 PM
Hey Andrew, why do you put my good name in quotations? Argue is my given name. It is an Irish name from County Cork. I know you’re an asshole, but why be so infantile and stupid?
As for your accusations, they are absolutely absurd. I have never supported any Islamic movement. Nor would I ever support the imperialist mass murdering reactionaries you are so fond of. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 2:27 AM<Hey Andrew, why do you put my good name in quotations? Argue is my given name. It is an Irish name from County Cork.>
No shit? Seriously? Man, you were aptly named, 'eh? In that case, I apologize. I just figured that you didn't want anyone to know your real last name. But - hey, who am I to argue with the good people in County Cork?
<I know you’re an asshole, but why be so infantile and stupid?>
It must be because I'm an asshole.
<What pisses me off about the comparison of Palin to a "slutty flight attendant" is that it is an insult to flight attendants.>
Not at all true. Just to the slutty ones. Yummy.
<An insult to women in general.>
Not even the TINIEST bit.
<Also an insult to "sluts" (an inappropriate and sexist term to begin with anyways).>
Um, it's not "sexist" because men can be "sluts", too.
You need y'rself some slutty stewardesses, my man. It'll do you good.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 12:42 PMSteven should read the book called The Ethical Slut. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 1:10 PM
I've heard of it. Could be interesting. It seems like you’re trying to make a point specifically about me. What do you think me reading it would accomplish? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 1:15 PM<< What do you think me reading it would accomplish? >>
It would catch you up on your REM sleep. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 1:26 PM
I found the following review. All are extremely obvious points that I would hardly need a book to point out. Then again, a lot of people like books that point out the obvious; I guess that's why Chomsky is so popular.
"Several good points are emphasized: love and sex are not necessarily the same, one may be an expression of the other but they CAN be completely separate. Love, sex and pleasure are not limited qualities people have...you can love someone else and make love to them without depriving your "primary" partner of the same feelings and actions. Drawbacks are also discussed, including time constraints, jealousy, respecting privacy and property of all your lovers, and coming out to your kids about your relationship (most actually think its pretty cool because there's always someone to talk to)."
From:
www.amazon.com/Ethical-Sl.../1890159018 -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 1:32 PM<< All are extremely obvious points that I would hardly need a book to point out. Then again, a lot of people like books that point out the obvious>>
Even more obvious is the fact the book is philosophically little more than a guide to assisted masturbation- something the book's cult is at pains to deny. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 5:09 PM<<Even more obvious is the fact the book is philosophically little more than a guide to assisted masturbation- something the book's cult is at pains to deny.
I think that everyone is different. But personally, I find physical intimacy with someone to be quite a different experience than masturbation. Both energetically and physically. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 9:00 PM<< physical intimacy >>
Oy. We are talking about a book and I *did* say "philosophically," now didn't I?
Unless textsex is your kink, then do as you *like*, baby. Just not to library property... -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 11:20 AMTestsex is just foreplay.... :)~
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 5:05 PM<<I've heard of it. Could be interesting. It seems like you’re trying to make a point specifically about me. What do you think me reading it would accomplish?
I can't say what it would accomplish, you would have to take from it what you will. It is primarily based on the idea that one can live a sexually active lifestyle with multiple partners and yet do so with honesty and integrity. But you may realize that the word "slut" is not necessarily gender specific, and that some people are even reclaiming the word as their own.
"The authors define the term slut as "a person of any gender who has the courage to lead life according to the radical proposition that sex is nice and pleasure is good for you." The term is reclaimed from its usual use as a pejorative and as a simple label for a promiscuous person. Instead, it is used to signify a person who is accepting of their enjoyment of sex and the pleasure of intimacy with others, and chooses to engage and accept these in an ethical and open way — rather than as cheating.
The Ethical Slut discusses how to live an active life with multiple concurrent sexual relationships in a fair and honest way. Discussion topics include how to deal with the practical difficulties and opportunities in finding and keeping partners, maintaining relationships with others, and strategies for personal growth.
It contains chapters discussing how consensual nonmonogamy is handled in different subcultures such as the gay and lesbian communities, information on handling scheduling, jealousy, communication, conflict in relationships, and etiquette for group sexual encounters."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethical_Slut
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 9:34 PM
Jeff says, "But you may realize that the word "slut" is not necessarily gender specific, and that some people are even reclaiming the word as their own."
I'm well aware of that being true within a context not applicable to this situation, so I wouldn't need the book you recommended to learn those facts.
Within this context, however, the term was being used in a gender specific derogatory way.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 9:40 AM<<Within this context, however, the term was being used in a gender specific derogatory way.
Of course it was gender specific, she is a woman......
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 1:26 PM"Steven should read the book called The Ethical Slut. "
Isn't this ignoring the fact that the people using the label here are doing so in the negative?
I mean, they are clearly not praising her for being a slut (if she is even one), and they are basing the judgment on nothing more that superficial bullshit like her dress being above the knee.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 5:14 PMI was not defending the joke, I was simply pointing out that the word slut is no longer gender specific and that some people are reclaiming the word. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 9:46 PM
It is fine that there are people who emrace poly sexuality and call themselves sluts. An important difference is that those people are applying the term to themselves in a positive way.
For most of this country the word slut is still gender specific and derogatory, making it a sexist term.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 9:41 AMI disagree that it is gender specific, it is used in relation to men ALL the time. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 10:23 AM
"ALL the time"
Really? As Johny Carson would say, "I did not know that."
I'm not a fan of Wikipedia, but this one is pretty obvious so I'll just post how they define the word "slut":
Slut or slattern is a pejorative term meaning an individual who is sexually promiscuous. The term is generally applied to women and used as an insult or offensive term of disparagement, meaning "dirty or slovenly."[1] It may also be used as an expression of pride in oneself or envy at the sexual successes of others.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut
This is what I've been saying. Obviously, Letterman's definition was not the one in the last sentence. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 10:29 AM<Slut or slattern is a pejorative term meaning an individual who is sexually promiscuous. The term is generally applied to women and used as an insult or offensive term of disparagement, meaning "dirty or slovenly."[1] It may also be used as an expression of pride in oneself or envy at the sexual successes of others.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut
This is what I've been saying. Obviously, Letterman's definition was not the one in the last sentence>
What exaclty is your point? that jokes should be Politcally Correct and not disparge any group of people? They should be without sexual or racial overtones? Give one joke told by any T.V. comedian that meets your criteria, I need an example. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 10:50 AM
John asks, "What exaclty [sic] is your point? that jokes should be Politcally [sic] Correct and not disparge [sic] any group of people?"
I do not find blatantly sexist, homophobic, racist, or anti-worker "jokes" funny. Oppressed people in this society catch enough hell as it is without having oppressive stereotypes and social roles reinforced with ignorant comments.
John asks, “Give one joke told by any T.V. comedian that meets your criteria, I need an example.”
While there is a lot of crap, there are plenty of good ones. Here’s a couple examples:
www.colbertnation.com/the-col...11-19-08
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 6:50 PM<John asks, “Give one joke told by any T.V. comedian that meets your criteria, I need an example.”
While there is a lot of crap, there are plenty of good ones. Here’s a couple examples:
www.colbertnation.com/the-col...11-19-08
>
I stopped it at the first joke where he attacks the homeless, what a bastard!@! Steven you should be ashamed of yourself, aren't hobo's oppressed people in this society? I guess if they can't contribute to your communist Koffers then they aren't worth a shit. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 10:26 PM
He didn't attack the homeless in any way. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 7:09 PM<
He didn't attack the homeless in any way.>
Sure he did, his first joke is an attack against HOBOS! and you offered THIS as an example of jokes that do not attack anyone! that is F'd up my friend. It shows how little you care about the homeless. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 7:50 AM>Sure he did, his first joke is an attack against HOBOS! and you offered THIS as an example of jokes that do not attack anyone!
Not that I wouldn't like to see a more coherent way of helping people stay off or get off the street...
But are you living in some kind of alternate universe where homeless people never mess with anyone?
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 6:12 PM<But are you living in some kind of alternate universe where homeless people never mess with anyone? >
are you living in some kind of alternate universe where flight attendants aren't slutty?
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 11:23 AMColbert is doing Parody. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 7:10 PM<Colbert is doing Parody. >
And what Letterman is serious political commentator? What the hell!??! -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 10:13 PM
Colbert didn't say anything hateful about the homeless.
Letterman said something very hateful about flight attendants; he compared them to Sarah Palin. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 14, 2009 - 9:45 AM<<Letterman said something very hateful about flight attendants; he compared them to Sarah Palin.
That is a serious stretch being that some flight attendants may have voted for Palin.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 11:22 AMOK, point taken..... but in regards to the younger generation, the word is commonly used in regards sexually promiscuous men. Words tend to change meaning with time.
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Sex is the opiate of the masses. And a lousy opiate at that !
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 10:39 AMSteven Posted :It is fine that there are people who emrace poly sexuality and call themselves sluts. An important difference is that those people are applying the term to themselves in a positive way.
Response: When are young leftists going to jettison the ridiculous , goofy notion that sex is somehow some liberating affair .? There is nothing liberating to the mind about 'liberated sex' . When you demystify it it is just a bunch of people screwing ---nothing great or superlative ---just a bunch of puerile trash . Many factions of the Old Left---especially in the era of FDR and Elaeanor Roosevelt and the earlier Edwardian period righly saw liberated sex...sex for fun as decadent garbage ---and , hence, were more puritanical .
The creepy weirdos ---pundits like Michael Kinsey , Abbie Hoffman , Lenny Bruce , Norman O
Brown (and their contemporary successors like Bill Maher and Al Franken) came along and polluted and infiltrated the Leftist scene with a bunch of puerile, crass sex positive ideology . The support for sex is indeed decadent and an offense to the good causes that the Left is supposed to be about like ending racism and anti-semitism , championing the rights of the poor, equal rights for women --damn good causes that count for something (not the puerile , adolescent trash of people gyrating their pelvises ) .
Steven, I applaud you brother for the opening article that began this present thread. The article against the tripe of Letterman was quite good. But I exhort you brother asa fellow ANTI-conservative (a pro-life ANTI-conservative by the way) to RID your mind of support for the sex positive/liberated sex thinking. Since you are a fellow supporter of the poor I take stock of the follwing insight : that concerns those rich kids out there .
It is especially hideous state of affairs when those upper middle class and rich kids out there ---the decadent , spoiled hipsters that bandy about words like 'existential' out of context , like kitchy cultural detritus like Woodstock 94 and movies like 'I Heart Hucabees' , the music of Alanis Morisette and Ani De Franco , Tantra ect ---celebrate liberated sex . When downtrodden working class people turn to sex for fun because they are often pressed out of measure by the stresses that beset the poor in this present country one can partially excuse it (although such laspes as rape are inexcusible for any income group) , but when upper middle income and rich , young, hip people turn to sex for fun that is completely inexcusible ! The phrase careless flower of youth is quite applicable to those latter sorts of people who get involved in sex not for the purpose of having children ---which is the only right purpose of sex--but unfortunately instead for abandon and excitement . The decadent 'bright young things' . Nauseating ! -
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Re: Sex is the opiate of the masses. And a lousy opiate at that !
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 12:28 PM -
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Re: Sex is the opiate of the masses. And a lousy opiate at that !
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 9:45 PMTL Posed : fuck all this horseshit. Letterman rocks!
Response: Balderdash ! -
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Re: Sex is the opiate of the masses. And a lousy opiate at that !
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 2:19 AMTL Posed : fuck all this horseshit. Letterman rocks!
Response: Balderdash ! (For emphasis let me type it again : balderdash !)
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Re: Sex is the opiate of the masses. And a lousy opiate at that !
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 9:56 PM
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Re: Sex is the opiate of the masses. And a lousy opiate at that !
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 6:17 PMThe phrase careless flower of youth is quite applicable to those latter sorts of people who get involved in sex not for the purpose of having children ---which is the only right purpose of sex--but unfortunately instead for abandon and excitement . The decadent 'bright young things' . Nauseating !
>
If having children is the rightful purpose of sex, then women would only go into heat, at the most once a year, rather then continuously as in the human species. Many animal only rut durring a mating season for reproductive purposes but the human female, and thus male are sexual year round. So your statement is biologically false reproduction is not the only right purpose of sex. and by the way, have you met Dan, you and him would get along great, like brothers.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 9:15 PMSteven should read the book called The Ethical Slut.
Response:That phrase is a contradiction in terms. Sluts and gigolos (people who are "open about their sexuality" are weird, vulgar-minded) .
By the way, the opening article that denounces Letterman for making those obscene and sexist comments is quite cogent . -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 10:09 PM
Jason says, "By the way, the opening article that denounces Letterman for making those obscene and sexist comments is quite cogent."
Agree with you on the sexist aspect of the comments.
Jason says, "Sluts and gigolos (people who are "open about their sexuality" are weird, vulgar-minded)."
Personally, it is this statement that I find weird.
The problem here is not the over-abundance of sexuality nor is it the lack of sexuality. I wouldn't care if Sarah Palin was throwing orgies nor if she was celibate. That’s here choice.
Part of the problem IS all of the people who think such things are their business and throw around sexist pejoratives like “slut”. The problem here is blatant sexism along with anti-worker statements.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 8:53 AM:Jason says, "By the way, the opening article that denounces Letterman for making those obscene and sexist comments is quite cogent."
Steven Posted :Agree with you on the sexist aspect of the comments.
Jason says, "Sluts and gigolos (people who are "open about their sexuality" are weird, vulgar-minded)."
Personally, it is this statement that I find weird.
The problem here is not the over-abundance of sexuality nor is it the lack of sexuality. I wouldn't care if Sarah Palin was throwing orgies nor if she was celibate. That’s here choice.
Part of the problem IS all of the people who think such things are their business and throw around sexist pejoratives like “slut”. The problem here is blatant sexism along with anti-worker statements.
Response: The perjorative term 'slut' is in of itself NOT sexist for there is after all a correlate term of disparagement for sexually open males: the word 'gigolo' .The references to Palin's daughter by Letterman were sexist and to Palin herself in references to airline stewardesses was anti-worker .
Liberated sex is repulsive from both a moral and esthetic standpoint . The New Left ought to rid itself of the pro-sex/sex-positive ideology and adopt the puritanical/ anti-sex otlook of many factions of the Old Left .
Why is it you do not believe that sex for fun is weird ? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 10:49 AMIm going to be the dissenting voice here and say that I think Sarah Palin is fair game when she uses sex appeal to reach her political goals. The same way everyone made fun of John (I must help the poor) Edwards for his $500 dollar haircut. Or Gore(we need to save energy and the planet) with his energy draining fleet of planes and vehicles. Anyone who saw her on tv during the campaign saw her winking at people and being flirtatious and lets be frank, a certain percentage of people voted for her on the basis of how she looked. At the same time many were put off by it. So when she is the topic of late night tv I do not see it as sexist or offensive towards all women because she greatly helped in creating her media persona. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 2:29 PM
Dragon says, "lets be frank, a certain percentage of people voted for her on the basis of how she looked."
Really? Personally I don't find her in the least bit attractive. But whatever, the whole point is irrelevant.
Dragon also says, "At the same time many were put off by it [her “flirtatious behavior”]."
Also irrelevant. I don’t really care what people think about something so shallow. Besides, nothing is going to change in this country due to electoral politics anyways.
Palin is disgusting due to her hateful politics and for no other reason. And as I said earlier:
“The problem here is not the over-abundance of sexuality nor is it the lack of sexuality. I wouldn't care if Sarah Palin was throwing orgies nor if she was celibate. That’s here choice. Part of the problem IS all of the people who think such things are their business and throw around sexist pejoratives like “slut”. The problem here is blatant sexism along with anti-worker statements.”
What is relevant in terms of these jokes is that it is an insult to women to use the sexist pejorative "slut". Jason's claim that the word “gigolo” is an equivalent term just doesn't hold water. The words have entirely different meanings and connotations. The word gigolo is used for male prostitutes. Even if they had the same meaning, which they don’t, Jason’s line of reasoning would be the same as saying it’s Ok to call Obama a nigger, and that it would not be racist, because of the word “honky”.
It is also an insult to waitresses and airline stewardesses to be compared to someone as wretched and rightwing as Sarah Palin. Letterman shouldn’t apologize to Palin, he should apologize to these working women and women in general. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 6:31 PMSteven Posted :The word gigolo is used for male prostitutes. Even if they had the same meaning, which they don’t.,
Response : Steven , is the word 'gigolo' used exclusively for male prostitutes according to the dictionary ?
What does Websters Unabridged Dictionary report about the definitions of the word 'gigolo' ?
Does it list any other definitions other than : 'a male prostitute' .?
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 14, 2009 - 9:49 AM<<It is also an insult to waitresses and airline stewardesses to be compared to someone as wretched and rightwing as Sarah Palin.
Again with the assumption that right wing waitresses and airline stewardesses don't exist. You are stretching in an pretty lame attempt to connect this joke to your agenda. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 14, 2009 - 12:45 PM>Again with the assumption that right wing waitresses and airline stewardesses don't exist.
That they might fail to appreciate why they should have been offended is no reason not to offer them an apology.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 3:52 PM<< They are a strange little outfit with lots of problems. >>
Including cop infiltration, anti-worker recruitment polices, abandonment of Trotskyism while fronting Trotsky to the outside world and the usual petty racketeering and false pretenses. A future revelation that the leadership is shot through top-to-bottom with police finks wouldn't surprise me a bit.
The only elements dimmer than the renegade bourgeois among them are the few actual *workers* dumb enough to fall for such shuck. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 12:31 PMAny time the SWP gets its hooks into any activist group, it goes straight down the tubes. I've been observing this phenomenon for the last 35 years. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 1:56 PM
I think the SWP started losing their rudder in the early 60's at the time the political formation I support broke from them. By the late 70's the current leadership of Jack Barnes started consolidating control of the SWP and screwing up the group a lot more. You say you've seen them screw up things since about 1973, I'd have to know the specifics, I don't find that hard to believe at all. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 1:57 PM
I think the SWP started losing their rudder in the early 60's at the time the political formation I support broke from them. By the late 70's the current leadership of Jack Barnes started consolidating control of the SWP and screwing up the group a lot more. You say you've seen them screw up things since about 1973, I'd have to know the specifics, but I don't find that hard to believe at all. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 7:46 PMIt actually started around 1971. What I observed was, when an activist group for, say, women's employment rights would be running smoothly and making an impact, in would come the SWP and next thing you know, the group would be achieving nothing except cheerleading for the SWP.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 3:55 PM>Any time the SWP gets its hooks into any activist group, it goes straight down the tubes. I've been observing this phenomenon for the last 35 years.
An observation that only furthers my suspicion that there is ultimately a rightist provenance to the article content.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 5:34 AM
Yet, there is nothing rightwing about the content of the article. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 4:50 PM>Yet, there is nothing rightwing about the content of the article.
Nothing that isn't already right-wing about them ignoring the Letterman problem until just now, anyway.
If the GOP can't win the next election with competent rightists, they can probably win it with 'incompetent leftists'.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 2:12 PM>Yes, it's interesting to watch some of the totally sexist remarks "enlightened liberals" will make about Palin and her gender.
Good point. No one made fun of Dan Quayle for dressing like an upscale prostitute. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 2:51 PMWhen has the topic of discussion ever been about what a male politician was wearing? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 2:53 PMSpig Zone asked; "When has the topic of discussion ever been about what a male politician was wearing? "
J. Edgar Hoover's red dress?
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 3:16 PMpoint taken. But that strikes me as an extreme example -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 3:34 PMI was being silly, but you are right that there is a sexist double standard going on. Personally I would be more likely to vote for a candidate (male or female) who wore jeans and a t-shirt instead of a dress or a shirt and tie.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 11:39 PM"J. Edgar Hoover's red dress?"
So women get attacked for what they wear and the only time men do is when they dress like women. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 11:47 PMit wasn't J. Edgar Hoover, it was Ana Cumpanas. . .
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 4:33 PM>When has the topic of discussion ever been about what a male politician was wearing?
When would it have had to be?
Dan Quayle at least never made bedroom eyes at me from the other side of a TV camera.
Moreover, neither did Hillary Clinton.
Palin's attire would have got her FIRED from the insurance office where I worked.
And any man showing that much leg? Getting fired would have been the least of his worries.
Being female is not a license to dress like a whore and be treated like a man whose attire is job-appropriate.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 4:36 PM"Palin's attire would have got her FIRED from the insurance office where I worked.
And any man showing that much leg? Getting fired would have been the least of his worries.
Being female is not a license to dress like a whore and be treated like a man whose attire is job-appropriate. "
Can you show us what you have particular issue with by posting some pics? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 4:52 PMjust looked through 20 pages on google image, and the only questionable stuff available were the faked images.
Could you clarify, or are you suggesting that she wears a Burka, while in public office? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 11:56 PM
Spig Zone says, "Could you clarify, or are you suggesting that she wears a Burka, while in public office?"
And hits the nail on the head. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 12:54 PM>And hits the nail on the head.
If she just dressed like a man, that would be my preference.
Hillary, too, but I understand that just isn't going to happen.
Commander in Chief is a job that comes with a uniform.
The women slinging grenades in Iraq and Afghanistan don't get to wear split skirts, either.
Everything a president or vice president does sends a message and sets an example, domestically, and abroad.
I saw Dr. Rice on the Tonight show dressed like a dainty civilian princess, and I thought that was just fine.
In fact, I thought it was GREAT.
But she's off the clock now.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 4:53 PM>Can you show us what you have particular issue with by posting some pics?
It's not my issue, per se.
If people like Palin want to dress that way for presidential campaigns, that's their right.
It only becomes an issue when they expect not to be mocked for doing so.
Where I worked, women could be called to kneel and show that skirts would come under kneecaps.
Visualize Palin pulling this skirt down that far and tell me whether the jacket would still cover her panties or pubes.
www.chicagotribune.com/media/...266.jpg
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 5:08 PMyou seriously have issue with a skirt that comes above the knee? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 7:44 AM>you seriously have issue with a skirt that comes above the knee?
She can wear what she wants, but, as a politician, she needs to understand that any decision she makes can have political implications.
You don't get a job if you won't dress for the job, and if you wear night clubbing attire for an office job interview, people will talk. If you make a public event of this, people will talk publicly. Like it or not, that's how it works. Showing that you know how it works is the first thing you have to do to get the job. I suppose it's partly the fault of the people of Alaska for misleading her about what will fly in any state not populated mostly by horny men.
An awareness of how things look, and the ability to apply discretion are qualities American should demand from anyone who might end up with their finger on the nuke button.
Moreover, we have a right to demand a higher standard from our elected officials than from insurance secretaries, both in skirt length and in communication skills. If she worked where I worked and explained things the way she has explained them, she'd have found herself curbside before her first coffee break- skirt or no skirt.
Telling people to stay out of the kitchen if they can't stand the heat is one thing. Asking them to leave the kitchen after they've started a grease fire is another. Palin started a grease fire.
BTW: do you remember Senator Paul Simon's bowtie?
I wonder if Al Franken will be wearing one like he did on SNL.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 9:17 AMLook, there is nothing wrong with the way she is dressed. The skirt is barely above here knee.
"You don't get a job if you won't dress for the job, and if you wear night clubbing attire"
What century are you from?
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 2:58 PM>Look, there is nothing wrong with the way she is dressed. The skirt is barely above here knee.
It might be easier to overlook if we hadn't seen even shorter skirts on TV.
You know that we saw them.
That and the winking.
If I saw someone doing that with my boss during an open-door job interview,
I'd be starting a pool on how long it takes for someone to file sexual harassment charges.
>"You don't get a job if you won't dress for the job, and if you wear night clubbing attire"
What century are you from?
From the same century as all US voters at this point.
Maybe Palin's behavior is acceptable in Alaska or Utah, but it would never fly for a high-profile government job in or near SF,
so maybe I'm puritanically biased. (?)
The more important a job is, the more important it is to show that you know what employers really want for qualifications.
Winking and showing leg to get No.2 dibs on the world's largest nuclear weapons stockpile is not merely a bad idea, it is an embarassment to me as an American to know that the world sees such things.
Being mocked by David Letterman is getting off pretty easy, I think.
After all, she started it by making us all look bad. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 3:14 PM"Winking and showing leg to get No.2 dibs on the world's largest nuclear weapons stockpile is not merely a bad idea, it is an embarassment to me as an American to know that the world sees such things."
Again, where are these "leggy" images? i want to see them -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 7:54 PM>Again, where are these "leggy" images? i want to see them
Just image google 'Palin skirt' and 'Palin campaign' like I did, with the filters off.
Some images are fake or irrelevant, yes. What she wears when she's not campaigning is her own business.
But the stuff that is clearly campaign-related shows skirt lengths for which will get girls sent out of class in highschool.
High boots cover some leg, but they ultimately don't explain the length of split skirts without hosiery in shots such as this:
i39.tinypic.com/wvzo68.jpg
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 8:06 PMOMG!!!
How sad and hilarious
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 11:58 PM
Spig Zone says, "What century are you from?"
And hits the nail on the head once again.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 5:40 PM<Yes, it's interesting to watch some of the totally sexist remarks "enlightened liberals" will make about Palin and her gender.>
Are you kidding me? They make fun of men, why not women? AND, Letterman did not make fun of Palen's "daughters", but of her "daughter".
Wow. Reflexives... Really? Making fun of her is this "antiwoman"? What bullshit.
<Are the liberals supposed to get upset over jokes? Is that part of being a liberal? Is that the premise?>
Yes. I guess so.
<Would you expect liberals to get upset over a joke about Obama having an affinity for water melons and chitterlings?>
You know, the whole idea of correlations are that they are supposed to have some equanimity about them - they're supposed to make sense... Joking about her make up? There's no connection between what you wrote and what he said, f'r fuck's sake.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 7:23 PM<Yes, it's interesting to watch some of the totally sexist remarks "enlightened liberals" will make about Palin and her gender>
What about all the sexist remarks made about Clinton, most of which were made here first. The bottom line is that it is okay to be sexist, as long as your not racist. And it is likewise acceptable to hound a female who would dare enter a mans game, until she is cowering in a corner. Should Obama care? Hell no, he was elected on the Bro's before ho's ticket.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 8:48 AMAre the liberals supposed to get upset over jokes? Is that part of being a liberal? Is that the premise?
I wonder if it is possible that they are focused on more important things? Is it possible? Is that allowed? Can you not worry about jokes and still be a liberal? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 8:50 AM"Are the liberals supposed to get upset over jokes? Is that part of being a liberal? Is that the premise?"
Would you expect liberals to get upset over a joke about Obama having an affinity for water melons and chitterlings?
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 9:16 AMOr those slutty street walker dresses that Michelle wears.
She looks more like a crack whore than most crack whores.
Those gap teeth she has look like she got them by inserting the crack pipe in 'em for years on end.
What CHoo wanna bet that not one comedian would dare to make such remarks.
And I think it's because the double standard is pernicious and pandemic
And now for the children:
Something extremely vulgar having lots to do with bestiality and that god awful ugly beast of a dog they have.
Yah a few choice remarks about the kids should fit in right perfect.
I mean after all, if it's fair game to pick on Palin's kids then it's fair game to go after Obama's
Or maybe people ought to clean up their mouths and acts and stop finding gratuitous vulgarity tolerable.
Maybe we should take offense at any one just using pointless and non relevant vulgarity to talk about any one at all whether they are public figures or not.
What on earth is funny about comparing Michelle Obama to a slutty street walker?
Or Palin as a slutty stewardess?
Neither remark is at all funny. Both are pointlessly vulgar relying entirely on some filthy scatological penchant on the part of the listener to find them entertaining.
I think it is our own damn fault for being trashy, classless, and dirty minded that any one can earn even a living by standing in front of a crowd and being pointlessly vulgar.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 4:42 PM>Or those slutty street walker dresses that Michelle wears.
Subjective, but I think I see your point.
I don't like some of the stuff she wears, but she also wasn't running for Understudy To The Guy With The Most Nukes.
And she never winked at the camera. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 6:24 AM
The issue here is not what either one wears. "Slutty" is a sexist term.
And comparing Palin to a slutty flight attendant is an insult to flight attendants.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 8:32 PM<What on earth is funny about comparing Michelle Obama to a slutty street walker?
Or Palin as a slutty stewardess?
>
The difference is that Palin DOES look like a slutty flight attendant, and that is funny! Michelle on the other hand doesn't look like a street walker more like a slutty school teacher.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 4:39 PM>Would you expect liberals to get upset over a joke about Obama having an affinity for water melons and chitterlings?
It wouldn't bother me because of my liberal leanings.
It would bother me because it's a joke that obliquely attempts to characterize my own race as inclined to make and7or enjoy such jokes.
OTOH, if Obama were heard bragging about his enormous penis, he would be asking for some amount of mockery.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 4:41 PMI got upset over some of the sexist comments (only the sexist ones - the rest is fair game) about Palin during the election and people in this tribe got all pissy and accused me of being a conservative. Which is pretty hilarious actually. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 4:54 PMStill I can't help but wonder why does anyone give a crap what David Letterman has to say? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 7:27 AM>Still I can't help but wonder why does anyone give a crap what David Letterman has to say?
Letterman is helping the right by giving them something to "care about" rather than leaving them with nothing more convenient to do than address substantive political issues. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 7:30 AMhaha!
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 9:18 AMahh, the article was from a leftist perspective -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 10:07 AMThis "controversy" did help raise Letterman's raitings during Conan O'brians debut on the Tonight show. Doing Palin certainly was a wise career move for Tina Fey.
The politics here are green.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 2:46 PM>the article was from a leftist perspective
Meaning that it uses a leftist angle of argument.
But where is the rest of the leftist outrage?
Who is really being upset? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 3:11 PMmost of the chatter about her, on this board, is done by leftists -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 7:55 PMOr people claiming to be. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 6:31 AM
So Orange wants to claim that I'm not a bona-fide leftist. Hilarious! -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 3:52 PM[I'm not a supporter of the Socialist Workers Party who put out the following article, but I thought this article was good and raises important points. -Steven Argue]
I was questioning the assumption that neither the Socialist Workers Party nor the specific article author have not been somehow compromised by rightist interests. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 3:53 PMSorry, redundant negative.
Lots of Spanish in the air here.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 4:26 PM
Orange said, "I was questioning the assumption that neither the Socialist Workers Party nor the specific article author have not been somehow compromised by rightist interests"
Under these circumstances I would defend any bourgeois pro-imperialist politician, whether Democrat or Republican, who comes under racist, sexist, anti-worker, or homophobic attacks. This is not because I think these politicians are worth anything but the human garbage they are, but because of what racist, sexist, anti-worker, or homophobic attacks mean in terms of the victimization of these groups. I think the SWP has expressed a similar outlook and I think it is legitimate. In my opinion, those who have been compromised by rightist interests are those who defend sexist and anti-worker statements like Palins. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 6:34 PMI confess.
I have been compromised by centrists, and they have succeeded in indoctrinating me, finally.
If the SWA thinks it's OK to tell Letterman to STFU, aren't they reducing the value of criticism directed at Palin's own sexist and anti-worker ideas, by framing a talk show host's tasteless jokes as comparably worthy of critique in comparison to what politicians say and do during a campaign?
Maybe Letterman should offer to apologize to Palin after she apologized for opening her mouth in public at all. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 10:43 PM>> If the SWA thinks it's OK to tell Letterman to STFU, aren't they reducing the value of criticism directed at Palin's own sexist and anti-worker ideas, <<
beyond attention grabbing the secondary point to all this nonsense is to back all of us into a corner where we're too afraid to say anything without offending some activist shithead.
Letterman made an off-color joke. so what? inviting a rightwing nutjob like Palin or a leftwing nutjob like Steven to censor jokes they find inappropriate is not going to make the world a better place. and the histrionic urge to destroy someone over one word in the complete absence of any context as to how that person lived his or her life is ludicrous. it would almost be funny if it didn't work from time to time. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 5:43 AM
TL falsely states, "Letterman made an off-color joke. so what? inviting a rightwing nutjob like Palin or a leftwing nutjob like Steven to censor jokes they find inappropriate is not going to make the world a better place."
I never once called for censoring Letterman.
It, however, is no coincidence that the corporate controlled media promotes so many sexist and anti-worker wind-bags. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 4:09 PM>I never once called for censoring Letterman.
I call for shutting off the TV, or changing the channel if you don't like what he has to say.
If people want to write letters, too, that's their right, I suppose (but stupid, if you also keep watching).
I would suggest sending them to the network, though; not to congresspersons. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 8:37 PM<I call for shutting off the TV, or changing the channel if you don't like what he has to say. >
I say tune in and get offended some more, then come to the realization that you are full of shit, and then get over it.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 14, 2009 - 12:47 PM>I say tune in and get offended some more, then come to the realization that you are full of shit, and then get over it.
That is so optimistic, I'm tempted to characterize it as pathological.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 5:15 PM<<It, however, is no coincidence that the corporate controlled media promotes so many sexist and anti-worker wind-bags.
I really don't see how you get Anti-worker out of the joke. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 8:44 PM>> I really don't see how you get Anti-worker out of the joke. <<
be glad you don't. you'd have to be hard-wired just like Steven for it to make sense.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 9:51 PM
Jeff says, "I really don't see how you get Anti-worker out of the joke."
Besides the slutty flight attendant joke he has said at different times:
“she looks like the flight attendant who won’t give you a second can of Pepsi… .
"Like the waitress at the coffee shop who draws a little smiley face on your check. Have a nice day… .
"She looks like the lady at the bakery who yells out, ‘44! 44! 45!’”
All of these comparisons to Palin are an insult to working women. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 9:44 AMNothing in any of these jokes actually makes fun of the job itself. For instance, is there anything disparaging about a waitress drawing a smiley face on your check? Sorry, I don't buy it. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 10:55 AM
What is disparaging is being compared to Sarah Palin.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 8:42 PM>> TL falsely states, "Letterman made an off-color joke. so what? inviting a rightwing nutjob like Palin or a leftwing nutjob like Steven to censor jokes they find inappropriate is not going to make the world a better place."
I never once called for censoring Letterman. <<
where is the falsehood?
>> It, however, is no coincidence that the corporate controlled media promotes so many sexist and anti-worker wind-bags. <<
I guess if you'll find whatever you want to find if you try. whatever. what would this country be without a bunch of pointless bitching over nothing?
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 8:51 AM<< the secondary point to all this nonsense is to back all of us into a corner where we're too afraid to say anything without offending some activist shithead. >>
Yes, Maj. Burns, it's all part of an insidious commie conspiracy to persecute the right by letting them run their fool mouths.
Having fear rule your life seems to be an abiding trait among the alt-wingnuts out there. Small wonder. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 10:49 PM>> Yes, Maj. Burns, it's all part of an insidious commie conspiracy to persecute the right by letting them run their fool mouths. <<
within the context of discussing Palin extracting a forced apology from Letterman, you're a complete dumbass.
>> Having fear rule your life seems to be an abiding trait among the alt-wingnuts out there. <<
so you take issue with my point that Palin is nothing but an opportunist trying to exploit a non-issue to win some free publicity and exert some power over Letterman's joke material??? followed up with the obligatory "alt-wingnut" label which has nothing to do with the thread. is that an accurate description of how your brain malfunctions? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 12:37 AM<< within the context of discussing Palin [redacted due to complete don't-get-itiveness], you're a complete dumbass. >>
In ANY context, you're a complete dumbass.
<< so you take issue with my point that Palin is nothing but an opportunist trying to exploit a non-issue >>
No, I'm making fun of a tiresome and epically silly preoccupation with leftie PC boogermen, the apologies they demand and the enormous power they seem to wield in your mind. It's like listening to some 1950s paranoid crank jabber about fluoride and mind control.
Letterman is a cheap shot maestro, so a recantation costs him nothing, might even spur ratings and gives his (hard-pressed, I'm sure) writers material to work with. THAT'S the reality of an affair like this. Properly worked, it redounds to the comic's advantage every time.
OF COURSE Palin's milking this for whatever's in it. It's part of the game she's playing. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 1:27 AM>> In ANY context, you're a complete dumbass. <<
seems as if your attention span is receding faster than your hairline. you basically responded to a post criticizing Palin by labeling me a "wingnut." I guess going on the attack is as good a distraction as any to distract the mongoloids from your latest bout with senility.
>> No, I'm making fun of a tiresome and epically silly preoccupation with leftie PC boogermen, the apologies they demand and the enormous power they seem to wield in your mind. <<
you're confused old timer. we were discussing Palin and Letterman. which segues into your silly preoccupation with right-wing stereotypes and your need to pigeonhole people you dislike into neat stereotypes. pretty sad.
>> It's like listening to some 1950s paranoid crank jabber about fluoride and mind control. <<
undaunted by evidence to the contrary, you just persist in your line of nonsense. like the little train that couldn't do anything else.
>> OF COURSE Palin's milking this for whatever's in it. It's part of the game she's playing. <<
of course you do dear. of course you do. you were just plain confused in your last post. it's OK. I guess the mind goes first. then control of the bladder. so I suggest you only buy dark slacks and consider stocking up on depends. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 1:38 AMPoor old bedsheet. Tormented by rightwing paranoias, talk-show hosts, PC mouth police, morbid fears of aging & death, an itchy hood *and* a Daddy complex. Your cup of ick *do* runneth over, Junior.
I suggest saving any further treats of what I'm sure is a, um, *rich* interior fantasy life for the nice man from the clinic paid to listen to it. Kindly stop projecting it.
<< I guess going on the attack >>
*Do* stop whining, Wally. And eat your peas like your Mom and I told you.
<< you basically responded to a post criticizing Palin by labeling me a "wingnut." >>
This sounds a lot like Franz Liebkind reflexively screaming he's Swiss. I spoke of alt-wingnuts in general, but if you wanna own it, well...
<< of course you do dear. >>
Save the endearments, sweetpea. Not even if you were the LAST midget totalitarian on earth!
Again, this is all a dance between Letterman's ratings and Palin's campaign strategy. Your own oft-aired prejudices hoodwinked you into rooting for one over the other, like a good little All-American tube-bot. Now you're being pissy with me about it.
How can I miss you when you won't go away? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 6:58 PM>> Tormented by rightwing paranoias, talk-show hosts, PC mouth police, <<
doesn't really flow considering the fact that we're discussing Palin and Letterman. for a "wildly successful" writer, you're a piss-poor reader.
>> morbid fears of aging & death, an itchy hood *and* a Daddy complex. <<
whatever creep.
>> *Do* stop whining, Wally. And eat your peas like your Mom and I told you. <<
here we go. still pulling from the middle-school grab-bag. and to think you're trying to eek out a living as a writer... life must be tough.
>> This sounds a lot like Franz Liebkind reflexively screaming he's Swiss. I spoke of alt-wingnuts in general, but if you wanna own it, well... <<
another gutless dodge. you blather on about courage and won't even own your words when you're engaging in your petty torments. it's almost too sad to be funny. almost.
>> Save the endearments, sweetpea. Not even if you were the LAST midget totalitarian on earth! <<
and back to the same. which I guess is the new for you. and to think you get paid for this kind of shit... I hope the aluminum cans you fish out of public trashcans is enough of an income supplement to keep you fed. life must be tough.
>> Again, this is all a dance between Letterman's ratings and Palin's campaign strategy. Your own oft-aired prejudices hoodwinked you into rooting for one over the other, like a good little All-American tube-bot. Now you're being pissy with me about it. <<
if you don't want to discuss it then why did you even post in this thread? oh right. you have nothing better to do.
>> How can I miss you when you won't go away? <<
pretty easy. just do what I do. when I see one of your uninformed, self-congratulatory, boilerplate posts that isn't directed at me, I ignore it.
but we all know your proud lineage won't allow you to relent. you're like one of B-movie stereotypes. you know, one of those persistent deranged hillbillies that decides to hound some city-slicker and his family while on holiday in the backwoods. I guess some of those southern stereotypes are true. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 1:55 PM<< "wildly successful" >>
Did *I* say that? Unlikely, unless I was being sarcastic! I've enjoyed a certain small (but gratifying) success at making smart people laugh and I have had the confidence of first-rate editors but I'd not call it the Last Great Gravy Train by several miles! What my trade lacks in a living (particularly these days!) is oft well-compensated in the "life" department. Any writer not Harold Robbins might say the same. To be fair to my readers and friends, some of them define "success" differently from me and I've (gently) argued for a more rigorous standard!
I realize you won't understand one word of the above, but that's OK. Reading J. Swift to monkeys has compensations in literature to make up for deficiencies in pedagogical method.
<< and to think you get paid for this kind of shit. >>
I've bitten every florin and have always loved to hear it make a merry jingle in me pockets, guv. Most bourgie of me, I know.
<< I hope the aluminum cans you fish out of public trashcans >>
Wrong again. Too many deadlines and too much competition make this a poor entry-level career choice. Don't say I didn't *warn* you, Junior.
<< whatever creep. >>
Explain your own (creepy) obsession over the age of total strangers any other way, Albert. It CAN'T be to make jokes, because you're too bitter and in earnest to be funny at it.
<< when you're engaging in your petty torments. >>
If you find me being smarter than you a torment, then simply disengage and save yourself yet another hiding, Junior. You can always "debate" one of your alts.
<< when I see one of your uninformed, self-congratulatory, boilerplate posts that isn't directed at me, I ignore it. >>
Passive-aggression is the first weapon of the inept.
<< you're like one of B-movie stereotypes. you know, one of those persistent deranged hillbillies >>
*bows*
NOW I understand why you're an alt! You-all is afraid Ah'll notice yer real purty mouf'.
I think I might understand your pain now. It must *hurt* for you to be whipped stupid by a "deranged hillbilly" every time you bring even your A game.
<< if you don't want to discuss it then why did you even post in this thread? >>
1) I don't need your *permission* to post anywhere, Franz. Blow any and all objections out that spike-hole in your helmet.
2) You're providing comic relief from weightier matters I'm engaged in with adults downthread.
<< know your proud lineage won't allow you to relent. >>
Is that a white flag, bluebelly?
Go then, and I promise not to fire any canister rounds as you retreat... -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 4:16 PM>> If you find me being smarter than you a torment, then simply disengage and save yourself yet another hiding, Junior. You can always "debate" one of your alts. <<
gotta love it. you responded to my post and now are working the "disengage" angle. could you be more predictable? and the fact you see this as some kind of competition or struggle. it's about as ridiculous as you can get.
you're one of those obligatory tedious conversation traps. you know that uninteresting, predictable moron that monopolizes people's time every time there is some kind of group function. that's you. you're the buffoon that has convinced himself there exists some mutual interest when in fact I'm looking for the pause in the conversation to escape before my brain adapts to your level and I start actually finding your nonsense interesting... which is a fate to horrible to ponder.
>> You-all is afraid Ah'll notice yer real purty mouf'. <<
is that how your pa used to scare you into cleaning your room?
>> I think I might understand your pain now. It must *hurt* for you to be whipped stupid by a "deranged hillbilly" every time you bring even your A game. <<
again. for a self-proclaimed "writer" you are one shitty reader. if there was an argument worth engaging, if you remotely demonstrated a passing familiarity with the facts being discussed, you might be moderately entertaining. instead, it's the same ridiculous self-aggrandizing recycled horseshit. the whole peckerwood con-man trying to prove he read a book with every post. it is just sophomoric, tired and old.
>> 1) I don't need your *permission* to post anywhere, Franz. Blow any and all objections out that spike-hole in your helmet.
2) You're providing comic relief from weightier matters I'm engaged in with adults downthread. <<
stop rebelling Luke. no one said you can't post. if you feel the need to embarrass yourself then so be it. and it's your right to whine about the consequences which you always do. and the result of boring me will be your humiliation. just as long as we realize that I'm absolved of responsibility.
>> Is that a white flag, bluebelly? <<
pathetic. there is no war moron. sorry. I don't scan threads looking for your posts. you never post anything so there is no reason to respond to you. but you obviously find these interactions an essential part of your tribe experience or you wouldn't incessantly respond to me. but for your edification, whether you win the lottery or fail to wake up tomorrow makes absolutely no difference to me. I don't wish you well and I don't wish you ill. beyond the boredom you inflict, you're a nonentity.
>> Go then, and I promise not to fire any canister rounds as you retreat... <<
*groan* but I can't seem to stop you from humiliating yourself. if you insist that I periodically remind you of the cruel tragedy of your existence then so be it. sucks for you. -
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Re: The Sunshine Boys, Book II
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 5:34 PM<< peckerwood >>
(raises hand)
<< you're a nonentity. >>
No, I'm a *peckerwood*! See above.
<< you responded to my post and now are working the "disengage" angle.>>
Nope. That's genuine curiosity plus my OWN boredom asserting itself. See below.
<< there is no war... whether you win the lottery or fail to wake up tomorrow makes absolutely no difference to me.>>
You won't believe this, but I'm truly no-joke comforted by the above out of a longtime Tribe.net antagonist. Thanks, and the same to you!
In return for such candor, TL, I offer you the following- I really, seriously *don't* know what your motives are for these exchanges (how could I?), but mine are very simple. I enjoy the give-and-take aspects of political controversy, love to go at people on whatever level they offer and always return to my work refreshed afterward. If the argument degenerates into crosstalk and vaudeville, I can go there too. Indeed, your only telling criticism of me -that I treat this tribe (and ideology, politics and the news itself) as fodder for jokes -is entirely accurate and I hereby own it to all who haven't already figured it out.
If you didn't know any of the above, now you do. We'll now return to the Wheeler & Woolsey Show, already in progress-
<< before my brain adapts to your level >>
You'd have to work your way up to Piltdown Man first.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 8:40 PM>> It's like listening to some 1950s paranoid crank jabber about fluoride and mind control. << >
What!?! are you saying that flouride doesn't controls minds? Wy the hell did I spend three grand on that reverse osmosis system for? Crap! -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 14, 2009 - 9:26 AM<< Wy the hell did I spend three grand on that reverse osmosis system for? Crap! >>
*Some*body saw you coming!
You dang city slickers really should be wary of "peckerwood con men"...
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 9:30 PMTL POSTED :Letterman made an off-color joke. so what?
RESPONSE: One joke apparently degraded hard working bealegurede workers like stewardesses and waitresses .Another joke made the prospect of underage girls having sex fodder for lurid amusement .
That is immoral folks . -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 8:43 PM<stewardesses and waitresses >
Ahem... That is flight attendant and food service personnel. Those sexist terms are obscene and not worth responding too.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 6:39 AM
Orange says, "Maybe Letterman should offer to apologize to Palin after she apologized for opening her mouth in public at all."
The people who deserve an apology include flight-attendants, waitresses, and women in general.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 4:11 PM>The people who deserve an apology include flight-attendants, waitresses, and women in general.
This idea works for me.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 8:45 PM<
Orange says, "Maybe Letterman should offer to apologize to Palin after she apologized for opening her mouth in public at all."
The people who deserve an apology include flight-attendants, waitresses, and women in general.
>
Maybe Letterman should apologize to slutty flight attendants, three at a time at the local Marriot. They could make a cable special on it. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 14, 2009 - 12:43 PM>Maybe Letterman should apologize to slutty flight attendants, three at a time at the local Marriot. They could make a cable special on it.
That's between him and them, and Letterman's s/o.
If none of them are doing it to get their hands on a congressional veto stamp, why should I mind?
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 6:21 PM<< I was questioning the assumption that neither the Socialist Workers Party nor the specific article author have not been somehow compromised by rightist interests. >>
The SWP has a curious history as a Left stopover place for quasi-intellectual wingnuts, from James Burnham to Sidney Hook to Lyndon LaRouche. Since the "turn to industry" they're all so keen to be around actual workers that they'll support every screwhead polluter in the energy and meatpacking industries just to "save workers' jobs". -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 5:47 AM
Lyndon LaRouche has stated that he was only a member of the SWP to carry out work for the FBI. If a right-winger like LaRouche is hiding his actual thinking, and is good at it, it is sometimes hard for any party to prevent such infiltration. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 4:16 PMSimply helping an organization to pick the wrong battles tends to be the classic methodology of the career infiltrator.
How is that not what we're seeing with the article in question? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 4:57 PM
While I have no special stake in the subject of the nature of the SWP, this is hardly the main battle of the SWP; and I do think that opposing the sexism and anti-worker hatred Letterman has expressed on this issue is an important issue to take up.
To show this is not their main battle, here is the front page of their current online issue:
www.themilitant.com/index.shtml
The conservative minded prudishness you've expressed here, on the other hand, about Palin's way of dressing, is what strikes me as taking up the wrong side on the issue.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 5:27 PM>The conservative minded prudishness you've expressed here, on the other hand, about Palin's way of dressing, is what strikes me as taking up the wrong side on the issue.
I'm in Bogota.
Palin might as well have been wearing a 5 foot long potato sack in comparison to what I see women wearing here.
And Bogota is surprisingly cold for being in the tropics (due to altitude).
You can probably imagine what modes of dress I tended to observe in various neighborhoods of San Francisco after midnight.
Lots of interesting fashion choices of which I approved... but none of them 'Presidential'.
Again, what Palin wore wasn't the problem. The problem was the context in which she wore it.
If I spotted her on Wreck Beach in Vancouver, I'd expect here to be fully bare-assed.
That's 100% FINE with me.
That is context-appropriate dress.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 5:33 PMWreck beach rocks. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 5:51 PM>Wreck beach rocks.
Maybe you were there 1996-1999?
How puritanical did I look with my cock swinging in the breeze?
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 5:55 PMI was there much earlier. I grew up partly at lake Samish, South of Bellingham. Wreck Beach was legend. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 10:01 PM
O.K., so Orange is only a prude when it comes to presidential candidates. Whatever. It still doesn't excuse the sexist and anti-worker jokes from Letterman.
I must add that I've never understood the proclivity of some men to tell women what is respectable for them to wear. Yet, the concept is still real big with the Taliban. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 6:49 PM>It still doesn't excuse the sexist and anti-worker jokes from Letterman.
So why does the SWP wait until he sets sights on a Republican politician before calling him on his behavior?
The timing is suspect. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 9:15 PM<< The timing is suspect. >>
I *can* tell you individuals in the SWP (when they bother to distinguish between parties at all) hate Democrats noticeably more than Republicans for the former's power in the unions. Their praxis got fucked-up in a hurry once they abandoned their base and all tried to become workers- a bone-stupid effort by college kids and office boys to mutate into Castro, Inc. Incidentally, this was about the time they ditched Trotsky.
What's interesting is that no one would've been seriously talking in these terms about the SWP even as late as the 1980s. *Something* turned them into the Keystone Kops of the left...
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 10:36 PM
Orange asks, "So why does the SWP wait until he sets sights on a Republican politician before calling him on his behavior?"
Has Letterman ever said such sexist and anti-worker things about a Democrat? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 4:21 AM>Has Letterman ever said such sexist and anti-worker things about a Democrat?
Offhand, I can't think of a specific joke. You may have a point there.
OTOH, what I was trying to point out was that somehow the SWP hasn't said anything about Letterman's long career of sexist and classist jokes (at least not anything with this much buzz, eh?) until, finally, he somehow crossed the line by disparaging Sarah Palin in the process.
tsk-tsk, Letterman
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 8:58 AM<< somehow the SWP hasn't said anything about Letterman's long career of sexist and classist jokes >>
I was surprised to see the SWP pushing that AT ALL! Being concerned about the crap on TV was never ANY kind of issue with them.
My (admittedly wild) guess is Orange is onto something. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 9:27 AMI had a subscripition to the SWP newspaper last year during the elections. I was suprised that they never once mentioned Prop 8 in California and almost never mention gay rights. It's almost like they are a bit squeamish about the issue. I am aware that some groups in the old left were not supportive of gay issues even in the wake of Stonewall. I think that has changed over the past generation.
Even though it was sort of suprising to see them comment about a comedian, I tend to agree that Letterman's joke about Palin was not appropriate. There is so many other real issues to take up about Palin and her ilk. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 11:37 AM<< I was suprised that they never once mentioned Prop 8 in California and almost never mention gay rights>>
Why offend the knucklehead elements of the working class they want to lead to proletarian revolution? ANY amount of truckling is better than telling those morons they're wrong.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 11:48 AMI did notice that other left and socialist groups did oppose Prop 8. Also most of the major unions in California urged a vote agains it. I don't think the working class is like Archie Bunker anymore. The face of the the working class is no longer white, it is more female, younger and includes more immigrant workers. Not mention the fact that millions of working people happen to be gay or lesbian themselves.
Maybe part of what is going on with that particualr (and very small) group is that they are stuck in some sort of 1930's mind set about the working class. Leaving aside for a minute their wish for proletarian revolution the proletariat ain't what it used to be. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 3:08 PMProp 8 was an issue, which, had more people on the left been mobilized to do something, the outcome might have been different.
This is one more example of what I would have to characterize as leftists being directed away from winnable battles to unwinnable battles by a supposedly leftist organization.
Hey, you lefties... with friends like SWP...(um).. well...?
Isn't this starting to look like exactly the kind of 'leftist' organization that the GOP would choose to oppose, if they could choose whom to oppose?
Golly... how could that possibly happen?
Well... I suppose someone has to stick up for Sarah Palin, since she apparently has no penis.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 3:11 PM>My (admittedly wild) guess is Orange is onto something.
How much clearer would it have to be?
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 4:25 PM<< How much clearer would it have to be? >>
At this point, my only problem with saying you're right is, from what I know of the SWP, they are certainly dumb and deluded enough to make this kind of barking error WITHOUT being handed bank under the table by the GOP. It's inherent in the whole "turn to industry" line they committed themselves to in the late 1970s at the peak of their influence.
Admittedly, this doesn't explain the Letterman article, which is certainly a mystifying thing for them to be concerned with.
<< I don't think the working class is like Archie Bunker anymore. The face of the the working class is no longer white, it is more female, younger and includes more immigrant workers >>
The thing is, they KNOW that (or should), which makes this kind of wingnut-hugging all the more puzzling. The SWP has shrunk to a bare fraction of its former size and what's left looks to be old tigers living in the past and mentally vacationing in the FAR past. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Thu, July 9, 2009 - 4:47 PMThey don't all have to be in on it.
One or two really good moles could push the whole agenda their way. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 12:46 AM<< Prop 8 was an issue, which, had more people on the left been mobilized to do something, the outcome might have been different.>>
Oh, there was organizational ineptitude to burn on that one! The SWP wasn't alone in falling down bigtime.
<< One or two really good moles could push the whole agenda their way. >>
Given the current size of the SWP, very true. If there's a sudden infusion of cash (or even activity) in the run up to next year's midterm elections, that'll be a sure sign you're right. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 9:24 AM>Oh, there was organizational ineptitude to burn on that one! The SWP wasn't alone in falling down bigtime.
Almost as if organizations had been somehow compromised from the inside?
All the more reason to think this could also happen with the SWP, more specifically. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 6:35 PMPost from the Daily Kos about sexism among progressives and liberals:
www.dailykos.com/storyonly...-Daily-Kos
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 9:53 PMOrange Posted :Maybe you were there 1996-1999?
How puritanical did I look with my cock swinging in the breeze?
Response: WHAT HIDEOUS, DEGENERATE , PUERILE FILTH !
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 13, 2009 - 8:49 PM<How puritanical did I look with my cock swinging in the breeze? >
Was that you?, I thought it was one of those lawn jockeys that play crocket..
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 7:50 PMThe SWP is _certainly_ superb at derailing effective activist groups. I've been wondering about their agenda for, as I say, about the last 35 or so years. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 11, 2009 - 1:06 PM<< derailing effective activist groups >>
I've seen them try to do it. The whole idea is to seize the group and SWP-ize it. This is a kind of a puny and chickenshit version of the old "boring from within" tactic, which is supposed to be used for agitprop reasons only and on large protest movements in conjunction with other parties. Since the SWP's tiny revolving membership can't influence anything large and they WON'T work with other leftist groups, they're reduced to this penny-ante bullshit.
<< sexism among progressives and liberals: >>
<< But you have got to be freaking kidding me if you think that the recent sexist behavior I've observed on this liberal blog is somehow OK. Some of you guys need a serious goddamned wake-up call: you are talking to and about women the same way Republicans do!
What.the.fuck. >>
Can't say I'm surprised, given the giddy nitwits they have for "liberals" these days!
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 4:22 PMYewni asks:
"Still I can't help but wonder why does anyone give a crap what David Letterman has to say? "
Well the problem is that idiots and misogynist jerks like he and Bill Maher are mirrors of the society that giggles and snorts with laughter at their vulgar common humor.
It would be different if the jerk made his stupid remark and right off every one in the room just stared at him as if he just tried turn misogynistic hate speech into populist humor.
Oh wait that's what he did.
Any one who laughs at that sort of crap might as well have been making light at a cross burning and laughing about how "darkie" needs to get out of town before something serious happens to him.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 7:24 PM<Would you expect liberals to get upset over a joke about Obama having an affinity for water melons and chitterlings? >
Is that true?
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 11:50 AM>> Letterman also did a “Ten Top Highlights of Sarah Palin’s Trip to New York.” Highlight number two was: “Bought makeup at Bloomingdale’s to update her ‘slutty flight attendant’ look.” <<
the revolution seems to be preoccupied with froo-froo. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 3:53 PM
Occupation with frou-frou? Can't you see how sexist and anti-worker that statement was? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 4:48 PM>> Occupation with frou-frou? Can't you see how sexist and anti-worker that statement was? <<
www.youtube.com/watch -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 4:49 PMlol -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 6:50 PMi don't think anyone would have made "fun' of her if she would have presented herself as an professional............but her communication abilities never surpassed the cheerleading/highschool kids (or paris hilton) level. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 10:30 AMI don't think Letterman is all that funny anyway. I will never be able to forgive him for that Top Ten Lists bullshit. That is the most overused humor gimmick in recent history -- and it has spawned thousands upon thousands of imitators who do it who aren't even as funny as Letterman.
The only Letterman I ever liked was the one on the old Electric Company show... -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 10:47 AMYears back while in New York I got in the audience for a taping of the Letterman show. To warm up the audience before the cameras rolled, Letterman told off-color Clinton jokes- kept calling him " fat boy."
That evening's show included a segment where Letterman was shooting mashed potatoes out of a water cannon. Big hillarious mess. During the commercial break, Letterman got down on his knees with the stage crew to help clean up the mashed potato carnage.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 7:27 PM<Occupation with frou-frou? Can't you see how sexist and anti-worker that statement was?>
I am very antiworker, why is that the people who defend workers rights are usually people who never worked a day in there lives. Thanks for sticking up for us little people! God knows we are helpless and stupid and will be working menial labor all our lives. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 12:03 AM
Hey asshole, what makes you think I've never worked a day of my life!!!! As for you being anti-worker, I'd suggest you have a serious problem with the people you depend on for survival. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 6:33 AM<Hey asshole, what makes you think I've never worked a day of my life!!!! As for you being anti-worker, I'd suggest you have a serious problem with the people you depend on for survival. >
I have to assume you haven't, the alternative is retardation. There are no such things as "workers" in this country. Sure their are people that hold jobs, some of them labor intensive, but none of those people would decribe themselves as "workers" because none of them would see themselves as bound to their occupation. Most people see their positions as a means to an end. Something they do to put themselves through school, or to save money for their own business. The label of "workers" is something that applies to a strictly classed society, one that is envisioned by communist. Your not going to get many people in America to respond to such propaganda, because no one is going to want to identify themselves with this label. The only people who believe it is appropriate are aristocratic, wealthy liberals who as I have mentioned earlier have never worked a day in their lifes and are completely out of touch with the "common" people of this country. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 6:36 AM
John said, "There are no such things as "workers" in this country."
And I didn't bother reading the rest of what he has to say because he is so divorced from reality that he couldn't possibly have anything to say that would sway any thinking person.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 12:05 PM""There are no such things as "workers" in this country." "
Anyone who gets a paycheck for putting in a weeks work is a worker, be it the woman on the factory line or the middle manager or a CEO. The mistake socialists often make is assuming that the only "workers" are the folks on the assembly line or picking the fields. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 1:25 PM
While the working class is made up of many more people than assembly line workers or those picking the fields, the problem with a CEO is that he is managing workers for the capitalists, and does not have the same economic problems nor the same interests as the workers. These people are part of a privileged managerial class, not the working class.
And the problem with a few of the out of touch people in this tribe is that they no longer think there is a working class. Makes one wonder where they think they get their food, electricity, etc, etc. etc. from.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 11:11 PM"the problem with a CEO is that he is managing workers for the capitalists,"
He is doing a job for the company, just as the blue collar workler is. Both are working for the capitalists
"and does not have the same economic problems nor the same interests as the workers."
Sure he does. He has bills to pay, people to feed, kids to take care of.
"These people are part of a privileged managerial class, not the working class. "
Managers are workers -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 5:51 AM
As is often the case, you and I disagree Ron.
I suggest people read:
Wage Labour and Capital
by Karl Marx
www.marxists.org/archive/m...ge-labour/ -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 15, 2009 - 9:31 AM<I suggest people read:
Wage Labour and Capital
by Karl Marx
www.marxists.org/archive/m...ge-labour/ >
Yep that is the best way to understand the fundamental flaws in the socialist logic, go to the source.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Fri, July 10, 2009 - 9:49 PMRon Posted :the problem with a CEO is that he is managing workers for the capitalists,"
He is doing a job for the company, just as the blue collar workler is. Both are working for the capitalists
"and does not have the same economic problems nor the same interests as the workers."
Sure he does. He has bills to pay, people to feed, kids to take care of.
Response: You mean decadent rich kids to spoil with fancy cars and credit cards ?.Bills for the CEO--what bills .bills for his 1,000 plus cable stations ? -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 7:43 AM>"and does not have the same economic problems nor the same interests as the workers."
Bullsh##.
Who is the expert here?
A bunch of armchair socialists, or a guy like me who watched his "managers" at McDonalds for 5 years doing any sh##y thing that needed doing, quickly, and without complaint?
When I was offered a supervisory position, it involved more responsibility and less pay than several other transparently menial positions at other places I had worked.
And I LIKED working for McD. I would do it again, any time the logistics are right.
Partly because the managers there were the people least resistant to getting hands dirty when someone had to do it.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 6:21 PM<While the working class is made up of many more people than assembly line workers or those picking the fields, the problem with a CEO is that he is managing workers for the capitalists, and does not have the same economic problems nor the same interests as the workers. These people are part of a privileged managerial class, not the working class.
And the problem with a few of the out of touch people in this tribe is that they no longer think there is a working class. Makes one wonder where they think they get their food, electricity, etc, etc. etc. from>
What country are you in? In America, people are workers, managers and owners there are no class division with regard to occupation. Pretty much every manager I know started off as worker, and every owner likewise. No one in this country is going to appreciate being tight casted into their current occupation by you, it's not a very good way to win over political support. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 7, 2009 - 10:07 PM
John says, "No one in this country is going to appreciate being tight casted into their current occupation by you, it's not a very good way to win over political support. "
Just like you were wrong about there being no such thing as workers, I also know plenty of people who are proud to be workers. This becomes less true in some of the unorganized lower paying jobs, but that will change as the class struggle heats-up. -
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 8, 2009 - 9:58 AM<Just like you were wrong about there being no such thing as workers, I also know plenty of people who are proud to be workers. This becomes less true in some of the unorganized lower paying jobs, but that will change as the class struggle heats-up. >
Communism is a catch 22, I suppose people chose it because they see themselves as under paid or over worked. but the end result is being under worked and under paid with no chance of changing the situation. Steven why don't you wake up from history and realize that communism is a failed form of government? Or are you one of those guys that has Oswald syndrome where you choose the most negative view point for the sake of the attention?
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Tue, July 14, 2009 - 12:40 PM>In America, people are workers, managers and owners there are no class division with regard to occupation.
Says a guy who probably played the same game of 'be a worker' for a few years that most people of his social class now seem to like to do.
The people with whom I went to high school mostly got a similar amount of additional education and most went into arguably comparable types of jobs. But where they ended up 10 or 20 years later seemed not only to have less to do with what kind of jobs they at first found,
but also less to do with how much education they got, or even whether they actually graduated from our school, than it did with simply how much family money that had been able to display from the time I first met them.
'Being a worker' for some period of time mostly just gives overclass kids one more tool to foist their "credibility" as analytic sociologists upon people who do not have the resources to articulate (much less promulgate) some less foregone set of conclusions about 'how things work in the real world'.
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Re: Letterman’s antiwoman and antiworker jokes
Wed, July 15, 2009 - 9:44 AM<In America, people are workers, managers and owners there are no class division with regard to occupation.
Says a guy who probably played the same game of 'be a worker' for a few years that most people of his social class now seem to like to do.>
Not sure what you mean by that, I grew up on welfare in the inner city of Boston, and have been on my own since 16, working full time, and put myself through school. So out of 40 years, I have worked fulltime for 24. Also I pretty much held a parttime job between the ages of 9-16, so you can add in 8 years of part time work.
<The people with whom I went to high school mostly got a similar amount of additional education and most went into arguably comparable types of jobs. But where they ended up 10 or 20 years later seemed not only to have less to do with what kind of jobs they at first found, >
That much we agree on, the job market in a healthy economy is designed to be transient, with people moving up into more skilled or management positions, or there own businesses. Most people I know over the age of 60 own their own businesses or are independent contractors.No one starts off in MCDonalds and expects to be there when they retire, in fact most don't plan of being their in six months. if your over the age of 40 and aren't working independantly or at least managed to work your way into a middle management position, then something went wrong. Granted there are those that choose differently, but the point is the options are open and not closed in a free society.
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