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The Obama crowd crowing that at least Obama isn't as inexperienced as Palin (even though Pailn has had more executive experience in two different positions than Obama has had, who has had zero executive experience even though the presidency is an executive position) are missing a giant elephant in the room problem:
If McCain/Palin are elected, there's only a small chance that Palin will have to become president upon the death or incapacitation of McCain. If Obama/Biden are elected, there is virtually a 100% chance that Obama will be president.
So obviously Obama's inexperience is far more significant than Palin's.
It's been often said that McCain's choice undercuts his experience argument. However, the inexperience argument didn't seem to work anyway against Obama; it didn't work for Clinton and it didn't seem to be working for McCain. Hence, other considerations came to be more important than experience. The way I see it, it's OBAMA's inexperience that undercuts any "inexperience" charge against Palin. With the experience issue relatively nullified (except again that Obama's inexperience is vastly more significant than Palin's), then Palin's other virtues can be focused on. Palin has an impressive personal story. I challenge anyone to point to any other politician in the country who has the courage Palin demonstrated by going after the leadership of her own party. Nothing in Obama's history holds a candle to her record in that respect. That smacks of incredible personal integrity, in spite of the smear mongering that many on the rabid left have immediately engaged in against her.
If McCain/Palin are elected, there's only a small chance that Palin will have to become president upon the death or incapacitation of McCain. If Obama/Biden are elected, there is virtually a 100% chance that Obama will be president.
So obviously Obama's inexperience is far more significant than Palin's.
It's been often said that McCain's choice undercuts his experience argument. However, the inexperience argument didn't seem to work anyway against Obama; it didn't work for Clinton and it didn't seem to be working for McCain. Hence, other considerations came to be more important than experience. The way I see it, it's OBAMA's inexperience that undercuts any "inexperience" charge against Palin. With the experience issue relatively nullified (except again that Obama's inexperience is vastly more significant than Palin's), then Palin's other virtues can be focused on. Palin has an impressive personal story. I challenge anyone to point to any other politician in the country who has the courage Palin demonstrated by going after the leadership of her own party. Nothing in Obama's history holds a candle to her record in that respect. That smacks of incredible personal integrity, in spite of the smear mongering that many on the rabid left have immediately engaged in against her.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Sun, August 31, 2008 - 10:58 PM"I'm not sure what she brings to the ticket other than she's a woman and a conservative. Well, she's a better speaker than McCain," - Faye Palin, Sarah Palin's mother-in-law, laughing. Faye may vote for Obama.
andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/th...tml
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 12:08 AMShe reinforces the reformer outsider willing to challenge even their own party leadership to get things done meme. Nothing in Obama's record reflects that
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 12:27 AM
this really says it all:
"She's not prepared to be governor. How can she be prepared to be vice president or president? Look at what she's done to this state. What would she do to the nation?"
- Senator Lyda Green, president of the state Senate and a Republican from Palin's hometown of Wasilla
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 5:10 AMIts nice that you let other people decide for you Inna. Hell, I mean, what better way to honor your right to vote -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 12:01 PM
<<Its nice that you let other people decide for you Inna. Hell, I mean, what better way to honor your right to vote.>>
that's just an idiotic comment.
maybe that's what YOU do, Dustin.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 5:22 AMPS Forgot to add, that most republicans, that are part of the state machine, hate Palin for the simple fact that she turned many of their chums over to the police
www.pbs.org/now/shows/43...eo-webex.html
In the video, it states that the Chairman of the Republican party wont even talk with her, because she turned him in for ethics violations -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 10:16 AM"In the video, it states that the Chairman of the Republican party wont even talk with her, because she turned him in for ethics violations "
Leave it to the smear merchants of the left to turn that into a strike against her -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:01 PM<< the smear merchants of the left >>
Translation: Anyone awake and paying attention.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 11:46 AMdoes this mean that once elected she will spearhead a program for the government to investigate any ethical question raised against a member of congress?
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 12:23 PM"does this mean that once elected she will spearhead a program for the government to investigate any ethical question raised against a member of congress? "
It shows that she will take on the entrenched interests of her own party. Something vary rarely seen in modern politics
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 11:48 AMit just goes to show how miserable republican government really is. see: illinois. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 11:57 AM>He LIES every single time. Then he repeats the lies until the askers are bored and go away.
in therapeutic circles that is called projection.
regarding the fitness of McCain. . .having followed him fairly closely a few years ago, and just recently starting to pay attention to him, I can tell you he is deteriorated badly. i have seen him at close hand and ten years ago he was quick on his feet, alert and snappy. now he is really dragging. he doesn't look healthy and doesn't seem to be entirely with it.
i am frankly worried about the damage that might be done to him just by the rigors of the campaign. . .if he is elected, mark my words. . .palin will be president in two to three years. .
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:06 AM
>> it just goes to show how miserable republican government really is. see: illinois. <<
what the hell are you smoking? besides the governorship, Illinois is historically a Democrat stronghold. and the current Governor is a Democrat.
if you want to go on about how Dems manage an economy into the ground, let's talk about California. or we can start with the city of San Francisco.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 10:15 AM"this really says it all: "
Oh please. She's attacked the Republican leadership in Alaska for its corruption and clearly is not a favorite of its leadership. So you assume without any independent analysis that anything negative said about her by an Alaskan Republican must be true? -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 11:18 AM<<She's attacked the Republican leadership in Alaska for its corruption and clearly is not a favorite of its leadership.
Of course, her ideology was never Republican in the first place. The background of both herself and her husband is with the Alaskan Independence Party, she only switched allegience when it became politically expedient to be running as a Republican for elected office. And in case you are wondering, the platform for the Alaskan Independence Party is wrapped up with Alaskan succession from the United States. They put Alaska before America.
"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions." - Joe Vogler, founder of the Alaskan Independence Party. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 11:31 AM"Of course, her ideology was never Republican in the first place. The background of both herself and her husband is with the Alaskan Independence Party, she only switched allegience when it became politically expedient to be running as a Republican for elected office"
Can you offer some proof to support this accusation? From my understanding, she only belong to this party for two years, back in the 90s
"And in case you are wondering, the platform for the Alaskan Independence Party is wrapped up with Alaskan succession from the United States. They put Alaska before America."
No Jeff, they support Alaska's right to have a vote on succesion, because they believe that was a right denied to the state when it was originally brought into the union -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:27 PM<<Can you offer some proof to support this accusation? From my understanding, she only belong to this party for two years, back in the 90s
You just confirmed it by admitting that she was a member. Officials from the Party indicate she was a member in 1994. She even addressed their convention AS the Governer, a Convention where the AIP vice chair George Clark told the small crowd that Palin "was an AIP member before she got the job as a mayor of a small town . In case you don't believe me, here is video proof.
Palin's message to the AIP Convention: www.youtube.com/watch
The Vice Chair indicating AT the convention that Palin was a member: www.youtube.com/watch
Now, Palin denies these claims.... not sure why the AIP chair would be dishonest about it, but it is possible.
<<"And in case you are wondering, the platform for the Alaskan Independence Party is wrapped up with Alaskan succession from the United States. They put Alaska before America."
No Jeff, they support Alaska's right to have a vote on succesion, because they believe that was a right denied to the state when it was originally brought into the union>>
You just proved what I wrote, the AIP IS wrapped up with Alaskan Succession from the United States. My statement is accurate.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:32 PM"You just confirmed it by admitting that she was a member. Officials from the Party indicate she was a member in 1994. She even addressed their convention AS the Governer, a Convention where the AIP vice chair George Clark told the small crowd that Palin "was an AIP member before she got the job as a mayor of a small town . In case you don't believe me, here is video proof."
Yeah, no shit, but I wouldn't ask you to prove something I already know. I was asking about her switching allegiance for political expediency
"You just proved what I wrote, the AIP IS wrapped up with Alaskan Succession from the United States. My statement is accurate. "
No, they support the right to vote on the matter. The two are not the same -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:03 PM<<I was asking about her switching allegiance for political expediency
Because anything anyone does to promote their career path is pandering and is only for political expediency... At least that is the standard you hold Obama to. So lets use the same standards shall we? : )
<<No, they support the right to vote on the matter. The two are not the same
And why do they want to vote on the matter? Because actively seeking succession was the reason the party was founded, with Vogler (the founder) actively pursuing succession in the 70s with his Alaskans for Indpenedence organization. To further the successionist goals of this group, (which was actively seeking succession, not just a vote), he formed the AIP to explore if the 1958 vote was legal.....and he did so in order to actively promote his successionist goals.
They have also wanted to explore the possibility of succeeding from the US and joining Canada. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:14 PM"Because anything anyone does to promote their career path is pandering and is only for political expediency... At least that is the standard you hold Obama to. So lets use the same standards shall we? : )"
Jeff, actually what I said was his entire career in the senate was spent campaigning, which it clearly was, and this make any decision he made suspect. Equating that to someones entire life is just stupid
"And why do they want to vote on the matter? "
Why is the right to own a gun important, even if you don't want one?
"Because actively seeking succession was the reason the party was founded, with Vogler (the founder) actively pursuing succession in the 70s with his Alaskans for Indpenedence organization. To further the successionist goals of this group, (which was actively seeking succession, not just a vote), he formed the AIP to explore if the 1958 vote was legal.....and he did so in order to actively promote his successionist goals. "
Great for Vogler. But the party is described in this way on Wikipedia (sorry, their website is down):
"The Alaskan Independence Party is a political party in the U.S. state of Alaska. Its best-known policy is its call for a United Nations vote, which they claim should have been offered as an option in the plebiscite on statehood under international law. Ideologically a constitutional foundation, the party also calls for increased Alaskan control of Alaskan land, gun rights, privatization, home schooling, and reduction of governmental intrusion in the private lives of its citizens with adherence to the founding documents of the United States. "
It in no way states that their main goal is succeeding from the US, and the personal view of Vogler does not define the view of every member of the party -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:38 PM<<<Jeff, actually what I said was his entire career in the senate was spent campaigning, which it clearly was,
And if you look at his votes during his US Senate career, most of them are not at odds with the kind of senator he was in Illinois. Subsequently it can't be claimed that most of his votes and time in the Senate was pandering. In some form or another, all politicians that want to be re-elected are campaigning to some form as they govern.
Tell me the votes, and then tell me how he did not really believe that position, and then tell me exactly who he was pandering to. And remember, two instances do not = a whole term.
<<"And why do they want to vote on the matter? "
Why is the right to own a gun important, even if you don't want one? >>
Which of course just completely ignores the information in regards to agenda that I just told you. Nice job, you ignore actual information quite well.
<<It in no way states that their main goal is succeeding from the US, and the personal view of Vogler does not define the view of every member of the party
Also from Wikipedia (being that you were selective):
"During the 1970s, Vogler founded Alaskans For Independence to actively pursue secession for Alaska from the United States. In 1984,[1] he founded the AIP to explore whether the 1958 vote by Alaskans authorizing statehood was legal.
The Alaskan Independence Party quotes Vogler as stating "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."[3] [4]
Vogler would serve as the AIP's standard-bearer for most of the party's first two decades. "
The very CORE of the party AND the reason for its creation. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:43 PM"Which of course just completely ignores the information in regards to agenda that I just told you. Nice job, you ignore actual information quite well"
Not at all, advocating a right to succeed is not the same as wanting to succeed
"The very CORE of the party AND the reason for its creation."
Voglar wants to succeed, you already stated that. But as I said, his view does not reflect the outlined principles of the party. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:49 PM<<Not at all, advocating a right to succeed is not the same as wanting to succeed
They of course are actively advocating the right because many of them want to succeed, which is what the people that founded the party were actively seeking when they created it. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:53 PM"many of them want to succeed"
So not all of them
"which is what the people that founded the party were actively seeking when they created it. "
Yes, and the party platform has changed -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 2:07 PMJeff, according to your reasoning Obama must be pro-slavery, since he is a democrat -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 2:35 PM<<Jeff, according to your reasoning Obama must be pro-slavery, since he is a democrat
If the Democratic party were pushing for states to be able to vote on the legality of slavery, then you would have a point. But they are not, thus it is not analogous. The simple fact is that the AIP was founded on the idea of succession, AND they are currently pushing for a statewide vote on just that issue. Pretty simple really. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 2:47 PM"If the Democratic party were pushing for states to be able to vote on the legality of slavery, then you would have a point. "
They did in the past, just like the AIP pushed for succession in the past. So according to you, that makes them a proslavery party.
And no, I didn't miss the fact that you still dont understand the different between advocating a right to vote on an issue, and the issue itself. I just chose to ignore it -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 3:05 PM<<They did in the past, just like the AIP pushed for succession in the past.
Your mixed up dude, pro slavery people pushed for the legalizing of slavery and sometimes did so through the process and reasoning of states rights.... just like these successionists. States rights was the vehicle, slavery the goal. The AIP consistently pushes for a vote because the party is the vehicle by which they achieve their successionist goals. Being that they are STILL promoting that same vote and the same vehicle, neither their goals nor their tactics have changed.
<<I didn't miss the fact that you still dont understand the different between advocating a right to vote on an issue, and the issue itself.
I understand the difference, you just ignore the motivations and reasoning. This is a party that has one primary core platform, voting for succession. That should make it freaking OBVIOUS Dustin... LOL... : )
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 2:24 PM<<So not all of them
I never indicated all of them.
<<Yes, and the party platform has changed
No, it has remeained exactly the same. The party was created as the vehicle by which they could explore actuating succession by vote. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 2:48 PM"No, it has remeained exactly the same. The party was created as the vehicle by which they could explore actuating succession by vote."
Jeff, Home posted the position as stated on their website yesterday, and it does not advocate succeeding, only the right to have a vote on the issue. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 3:08 PMIf I advocated for the right to vote on legalizing slavery, created political party where that vote is the CORE of the platform....one would logically be able to conclude that I was for the legalization of slavery. Simple logic.
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Unsu...
Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 12:22 AM
<<f McCain/Palin are elected, there's only a small chance that Palin will have to become president upon the death or incapacitation of McCain.>>
not true. average life expectancy for white males in the US is 75. even without taking his cancer into consideration, there is better than 50% chance that he will die before 2012. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 12:26 AMfuther its been openly discussed for some time that mccain won't run in 2012 if he wins in 08. hes gonna be too old...i mean take a look at the guy he's really aged bigtime since 2000.
who here, if you had your net worth tied up in one company you founded, would hire john mccain to run it? -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 10:03 AM"who here, if you had your net worth tied up in one company you founded, would hire john mccain to run it? "
If my two candidates were him and Obama, I'd pick him. He has more of a record of bending his preconceptions to the reality of the situation; in other words, he's more practical, reaching out for compromises if necessary, which is what you want in leadership in a business that deals with the real world rather than ideological theory. Obama is just a partisan who rarely if ever deviates from the party line. You don't want an ideologue running your business. They would run it into the ground before realizing that what they want to believe doesn't necessarily comport with reality. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 10:19 AMwhat if you choices were George W. Bush and Al Gore? -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:25 AM"what if you choices were George W. Bush and Al Gore?"
Gore -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:30 AMI hope you realize that McCain in fact has a very similar personality type as Bush, including impulsiveness, stubbornness, and bad decision-making. His rep in Arizona and DC is as a hard-headed guy who doesn't really build consensus or cooperate well with others. He is also in hock with the same neocon idiots who took Bush down the garden path.
If you think Bush was a bad president, you're very very likely to think the same of McCain.
Obama is pretty similar personality type to Gore; thoughtful, and a consensus builder. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:41 AM"I hope you realize that McCain in fact has a very similar personality type as Bush, including impulsiveness, stubbornness, and bad decision-making."
Face it cDub. In your mind, it all boils down to "Republican bad!"
He's white, male and bipedal, just like Hitler!
"I hope you realize that McCain in fact has a very similar personality type as Bush, including impulsiveness, stubbornness, and bad decision-making."
To paraphrase Bill Clinton, the idea that Obama is a consensus builder is one of the biggest fairy tales. The guy votes partisan down the line, which explains why he had the most liberal voting records last year. No one with the most liberal or conservative voting record can make any claim to seeking bipartisan consensus. Or perhaps you meant he builds a consensus among all those who agree with him?. Please identify when he's seriously tried to build a consensus with Republicans. -
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how about basing an argument on FACTUAL TRUTH ?
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 7:12 AM<To paraphrase Bill Clinton, the idea that Obama is a consensus builder is one of the biggest fairy tales.>
said during the primary battle. sterling reference,
<The guy votes partisan down the line, which explains why he had the most liberal voting records last year.>
the national journal rating, which so rated obamaa, is based on a so called '100 key votes', not the entire voting record. a '100 key votes' selected by them each year and which miraculously found kerry with the 'most liberal' record' in 2004. if you go by a CREDIBLE study, which takes into account ALL of the senate votes in a year by the senators, obama comes in tenth in 2007.
mediamatters.org/items/200802110008
<No one with the most liberal or conservative voting record can make any claim to seeking bipartisan consensus. Or perhaps you meant he builds a consensus among all those who agree with him?. Please identify when he's seriously tried to build a consensus with Republicans.>
despite people having provided exhaustive and definitive proof to you numerous times in the past that obama has a very bi-partisan and consensus building legislative record, still you insist on hacking up the same old republican talking points and when challenged asking for proof, as above, that obama has been bi-partisan.
this is disingenuous to a fare thee well.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 7:39 AMFace it cDub. In your mind, it all boils down to "Republican bad!"
they are bad for the economy, women rights, 1st, 5th and a few other amendments, and dont really seem to care about Veterans. Oh yea that environment thingy is not one of their strong suits.
btw the republican party brand was dying in 1986 and the final nail was the election of spy master GWB. I remember working at the American Conservative Union at this time and was trying to figure out who all these nut ball religious folks were crawling in from the pews to stand on soap boxes. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:44 PMTheft-o-Lefto-Craps are bad for the economy, individual civil liberties, 1st, 4th, 6th, 5th, 14th and a few other amendments, and dont really seem to care about any one but themselves and even then only those who fit the narrowest of idealogical strictures.
They are however very good at lying and taking credit for what others do.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 7:08 PM<Face it cDub. In your mind, it all boils down to "Republican bad!">
So far, you are right. I have yet to see ONE non-selfish and reasonable republican candidate. "Balanced budget" to me means 'cut services'. "Responsible governance" means 'cut services'. "Strict Constitutionalis" means 'except where Christianity is involved'. The Environment to the Republican party is nothing but opportunity for someone to make some short-term income. Who cares about the actual environment or the people or animals that depend on that environment?
Don't even get me started on the 80's, straight-up racist Republican party.
Sorry, Ron. I'd sooner vote for a Communist than a republican.
<Equating committee experience with real experience is balderdash.>
Yes, but at least Obama has SOME more experience than this Palin woman. McCain? Maybe he will, maybe he won't last out his first term - so her experience is very, very relevant.
And, there isn't any. None. There'll be debates on who was more qualified - her or Quale.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 7:13 PM>> "Balanced budget" to me means 'cut services'. <<
a lesson in government. when you threaten the budget of a big bureaucracy, the first thing to be cut is purposely chosen to be as painful as possible. the last thing to be cut are extra layers of administrative weight. because, bureaucracies weigh success by the size of their staff and their budget. and you really should give a few props to Bill Clinton for working with the Republican Congress to balance the budget. government works when it is divided.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 7:25 AM>> I hope you realize that McCain in fact has a very similar personality type as Bush <<
The biggest problem with Bush isn't his "personality type" - it's his "intelligence type" - which is "cretin".
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do you agree, ron?
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 11:37 AM<"who here, if you had your net worth tied up in one company you founded, would hire john mccain to run it? "
If my two candidates were him and Obama, I'd pick him. He has more of a record of bending his preconceptions to the reality of the situation; in other words, he's more practical, reaching out for compromises if necessary, which is what you want in leadership in a business that deals with the real world rather than ideological theory. Obama is just a partisan who rarely if ever deviates from the party line. You don't want an ideologue running your business. They would run it into the ground before realizing that what they want to believe doesn't necessarily comport with reality>
defining the argument
1. you assert obama is an 'idealogue' yet his actual record across eight years of legilative activities shows him continuously reaching across the aisle and working out compromises albeit ones usually weighted to obama's argument . having an ideology is not the same as being an ideologue nor is the capacity to move the opposition towards your point of view using reason and logic. this has brought up many times in responses to your posts. making an argument based on factual truth is the mark of the rational and capable.
2. there is a far better measure of a candidates capacity to run a business than his shifting positions. there are national primary and presidential campaign organizations of which the candidate is the 'ceo'. operationally, these campaigns are indistinguihable from companies. while in operation they contain all the components a company does. what better yardstick of which candidate one wants running the company one's net worth is tied up in than how that campaign operation is run?
ron, do you agree that is a far more accurate measure of such capacity?
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 9:46 AM<<Obama is just a partisan who rarely if ever deviates from the party line.
You are ignoring Obama's long history of bipartisanship, your really stretching with the claim that is just a partisan.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 8:02 AM<not true. average life expectancy for white males in the US is 75. even without taking his cancer into consideration, there is better than 50% chance that he will die before 2012.>
Not true. Total life expectancy increases with age. A male who is 72 now will, on average, live another 10 years or so. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 9:03 AMscott.....he had 4 times cancer.....still in remission and it could pop up at any time again.....
and the form of cancer he had is potentially fatal. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:01 AM<and the form of cancer he had is potentially fatal.>
Is any not "potentially fatal"?
<Obama is just a partisan who rarely if ever deviates from the party line.>
I see. Kind of like McCain's rebirth to the Christian Conservative ideals of abortion? Kinda like that, you mean? Don't be ridiculous, Ron. Maybe Obama votes based upon his beliefs? And, did Obama toe the party line? Sure. Did McCain ever do the same?
You're reaching here.
We're talking about career pols.
<Let's put a guy in charge of the nuclear football who has had experience in national office for less than four years as one vote among a hundred,>
Yet, a woman who was mayor of some podunk town, who was Gov or a backwoods state........... She's qualified? A woman who professed no knowledge of what the VP does or what is going on in Iraq? Then there's Obama - surely not the most qualified guy ever for the position, but he's 100x more qualified than she is. Eight years as a state senator for a very important region, and then a Senator? He deals with more complex ideas in one week than she has done her whole career.
She's small-minded within her Christian mores box, her short-sighted experiential existence and her lack of any kind of world-wide view.
If she's experienced and qualified, Obama is the perfect candidate ever.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 9:58 AM"not true. average life expectancy for white males in the US is 75. even without taking his cancer into consideration, there is better than 50% chance that he will die before 2012."
Inna, you know better than that. Life expectancies are determined from birth. If he was born today, all things being equal, then he would be expected to live that long. However, early deaths of people lower the overall life expectancy. For example, in a population of two, if one person died at the age of two and the other lived to the age of 102, then the average life expectancy of that population would be 52. But that doesn't mean that if a third member of the population lived to 51, he should be expected to die the next year. If you survive past the earlier risks of death that others succumb to, and you've made it to 71, then your chances of surviving past the 75 mark are far greater.
Given that he's survived this long, plus the fact that he has excellent government health care and life spans for upper income people are higher than for others, then his chances of dying before 2012 are considerably less than 50%.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 6:52 AMThe Theft-o-Crap lies are astonishing:
And the hell of it is that the worshipers believe them even while knowing the facts are otherwise:
They know that No'Bama voted FOR the GW economic plan and McCain voted against it yet they still sing along to the lies a that it'll be 4 more years of Bush's economic policies if it's McCain.
They know that No'Bama voted FOR Ethanol and McCain said we need the whole Enchalada from drillking to wind and sea to nuke.
They know their demon pig god has only one response whenever he is asked a hard question: He LIES every single time. Then he repeats the lies until the askers are bored and go away.
They know full well that Alternative energies are a motherfucker on costs and manufacturing to get going and that known technologies are doable TODAY not in the 30 - 50 years it''ll take the so called "green" alternatives to catch up.
Hell they know the "green" alternatives aren't all that green in the first place.
Yet they still sing along to the lies of BoZo that the solution is only about not consuming power and returning to the stone age.
They know that No'Bama is a racist America hating marxist and they think it was really cool that he took the US flag off his private jet. And while he's jetting around in his provate jet they tell themselves that he is a man of the people and point to him as he pompously overlords it from that way far high podium - -which by the way he is too much of a chicken shit little asswipe of a fucking commie to come down and fight like a man in a town hall debate.
They know his spiritual adviser is a race bating hater of America and No'Bama only repudiated him AFTER the moron endangered his candidacy.
They know that their demon pig god is a friend of terrorists whose political career was launched at the home of a terrorist - AND that all the world's worst terrorists want No'Bama in the White House.
And they don't see this as a problem.
They know that No'Bama doesn't have enough experience to get a paper route.
They know that every single one of No'Bama's so called grass roots efforts failed miserably. And that No'Bama abandoned them as soon as they started to fail.
They know their boy is a pretender and a communist and a friend of monsters.
Yet they like him because - - exactly because they are virulent haters of America and want what ever is bad for the nation.
Don't believe me? Just watch them post read their wish lists.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 7:37 AM<The Obama crowd crowing that at least Obama isn't as inexperienced as Palin (even though Pailn has had more executive experience in two different positions than Obama has had, who has had zero executive experience even though the presidency is an executive position) are missing a giant elephant in the room problem:>
what crowd might that be ron?
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 7:49 AM"what crowd might that be ron? "
This crowd.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 7:53 AM<<what crowd might that be ron? >>
This must be the talking point of the day. Try to equate a PTA member with Obama. She has executive experience!!! What a joke. I heard she balances he family's check book as well. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:36 AM"This must be the talking point of the day"
Man your hypocrisy is breathtaking. You have been doing nothing other than spouting Daily Kos talking points ever since Palin was nominated.
"Try to equate a PTA member with Obama"
This is hysterical. The Obamaics trying to argue that at least Obama isn't as inexperienced as Palin, except:
1. Obama is running for president, not vice-president, so his inexperience is obviously more significant
2. Palin has had executive experience in two different public offices. But she was in the PTA, so I guess that for some reason known only to Nolen erases her being governor. In contrast Obama has had zero executive experience, even though the presidency is an executive position. Most of the few years he's spent in elected office and the three or so years in the Senate as one vote among a hundred has been pursuing higher political ambitions -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 9:54 AM<<Obama is running for president, not vice-president, so his inexperience is obviously more significant
They should both be measured as just as significant..... considering Mccain's age and history with cancer. Furthermore, Obama has the foreign policy experience that Palin just does not have.
<<Most of the few years he's spent in elected office and the three or so years in the Senate as one vote among a hundred has been pursuing higher political ambitions
It certainly makes it easier to discount his bipartisan accomplishments by negating them with your "higher policial ambitions" claim. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 9:59 AM"Furthermore, Obama has the foreign policy experience that Palin just does not have."
Can you highlight that experience for us?
"It certainly makes it easier to discount his bipartisan accomplishments by negating them with your "higher policial ambitions" claim."
Jeff, I think it totally justifiable to lay that accusation at the feet of Obama, when considering his time in the US senate -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 10:23 AM<<Can you highlight that experience for us?
Obama Senate Committees: 1.) Senate Committees for Foreign Relations. 2.) Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs
I am sure you will attempt to downplay this experience..... but however you try it still does not change the fact that he has this experience and she does not.
<<"Furthermore, Obama has the foreign policy experience that Palin just does not have."
Can you highlight that experience for us?
"It certainly makes it easier to discount his bipartisan accomplishments by negating them with your "higher policial ambitions" claim."
<<Jeff, I think it totally justifiable to lay that accusation at the feet of Obama, when considering his time in the US senate
So, you are saying that he did not really back the bipartisan legislation he worked on.... he was just pandering.....thus he is not bipartisan.... Strange circular reasoning. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 10:25 AMOops, I forgot one...
3.) Obama also became Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 10:27 AMBut McCain has lots of experience. . .lots! Just look at his years of attendance records in the senate.
plus, he will save us money. . .senior discounts!
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 10:27 AMEquating committee experience with real experience is balderdash.
Joe Biden has 30 years of foreign relations experience on various committees..............and I might add 30 years of being wrong on everything...........
Maggie Thatcher had little foreign policy experience but she surrounded herself with shrewd advisers.........
you guys will just say anything
Nobama has less executive experience than Palin.........just deal with it. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 11:21 AM<<Equating committee experience with real experience is balderdash.
What would you consider REAL experience Glen?
<<and I might add 30 years of being wrong on everything...........
You don't even know what he has done while on the committe, you are just engaging in spouting off while leaving out the details.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 10:30 AM"Obama Senate Committees: 1.) Senate Committees for Foreign Relations. 2.) Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs3.) Obama also became Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs. "
How many days did he actually attend those meetings. I remember reading that he was absent most of the time, due to campaigning for the presidency
"So, you are saying that he did not really back the bipartisan legislation he worked on.... he was just pandering.....thus he is not bipartisan.... Strange circular reasoning."
No, I think his career in the senate was designed to score him the biggest number of political points possible. But this is common for any politician. The problem is that his entire senate career was dedicated to such pandering, ad it is hard to tell where the man begins and where the politician ends (his Fisa and Iran votes are perfect examples of this) -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 11:25 AM<<How many days did he actually attend those meetings. I remember reading that he was absent most of the time, due to campaigning for the presidency
Yeah, I am sure you "hear" all kinds of stuff..... but what about demonstrating your claim that he missed those meetings? See, you are doing exactly as I said......you are trying to downplay his actual foreign policy experience while ignoring that no matter how small it may be, it is still more than Palin.
<<The problem is that his entire senate career was dedicated to such pandering,
So for you, being politically ambitious = pandering. Sorry, wrong definition again. Of course if one has high ambitions in their career of choice, they are going to take the steps to get the experience and credentials to be promoted.
In regards to actual pandering, it is unfortunate that the nature of politics puts every statesman in those positions at times. At other times, what may look like pandering is in reality a compromise vote. That is why I am a big advocate of looking at the details rather than skimming the surface of these issues. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 11:36 AM"Yeah, I am sure you "hear" all kinds of stuff..... but what about demonstrating your claim that he missed those meetings? See, you are doing exactly as I said......you are trying to downplay his actual foreign policy experience while ignoring that no matter how small it may be, it is still more than Palin. "
Jeff, please, lets turn the focus away from me for a minute and focus on obama.
"So for you, being politically ambitious = pandering. Sorry, wrong definition again. Of course if one has high ambitions in their career of choice, they are going to take the steps to get the experience and credentials to be promoted."
No, as I said it is to be expected. The problem arises when his whole 2 1/2 career was dedicated to political ambition, making it hard to discern what his real policy stances are. Like I said, reference the Iran and Fisa vote
"In regards to actual pandering, it is unfortunate that the nature of politics puts every statesman in those positions at times. "
Yes, and his entire career in the Senate was one of those times -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:35 PM<<Jeff, please, lets turn the focus away from me for a minute and focus on obama.
I thought this thread was about Palin?
<<The problem arises when his whole 2 1/2 career was dedicated to political ambition, making it hard to discern what his real policy stances are.
That is clear if you care to look at his long history of community involvement AND his terms in the Illinois Senate. Very little that he has done as a US Senator contradicts his history. And as dissappointing as his FISA vote is, you can find votes like this with ANY Senator. I prefer to acknowledge his mistakes, but understand that I agree with 90% of what the man has done. Nobody is going to be 100% happy with 100% of the votes of their candidate.
<<Yes, and his entire career in the Senate was one of those times
A Bullshit slanderous claim based on two votes. Nice demagoguery. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:43 PM"That is clear if you care to look at his long history of community involvement AND his terms in the Illinois Senate. "
And how does that apply to foreign policy?
"A Bullshit slanderous claim based on two votes. Nice demagoguery. "
Not at all. His entire career in the senate is marred by the fact that he was campaigning the entire time. A situation where many people are forced to pander. This is a fact that you even acknowledged
(n regards to actual pandering, it is unfortunate that the nature of politics puts every statesman in those positions at times.) -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:06 PMI will tell you if you answer my questions about the meetings you said he missed.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:52 PM<<And how does that apply to foreign policy?
You are the one that diverted the conversation from foreign policy to his overall votes. His statements and speeches on foreign policy while an Illinois Senator are not at odds with most of his actions as a US Senator.
<<Not at all. His entire career in the senate is marred by the fact that he was campaigning the entire time.
Marred, what an overblown word to use... LOL... Every Senator is in some way campaigning while acting in the capacity of a statesmen being that they are up for election every few years. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:57 PM"You are the one that diverted the conversation from foreign policy to his overall votes. His statements and speeches on foreign policy while an Illinois Senator are not at odds with most of his actions as a US Senator."
SO giving a speech equals experience on foreign policy?
"Marred, what an overblown word to use... LOL... Every Senator is in some way campaigning while acting in the capacity of a statesmen being that they are up for election every few years."
Jeff, it is a question of constituencies and selling yourself to a new group of voters. When you are running for president you need to pander to the entire nation, and not just one half of Illinois. This is why it is so common for a presidential candidate to miss key votes in both the house and senate. As I said, this is clearly reflected in the voting record of both McCain and Obama. The problem is that this situation has defined his entire career at the national level.
You can ignore this fact all you want. It is your choice -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 2:41 PM<<SO giving a speech equals experience on foreign policy?
No, but working in a bipartisan manner in foreign relations committees in the Senate does. And doing so in such a way that has been primarily consistent with his views when he was an Illinois Senator, subsequently nagating your assertion that he has primarily been pandering in his work in those committees.
<<The problem is that this situation has defined his entire career at the national level.
Which of course is false. You can repeat a lie all you want, but it is still a lie. If most of his current positions were at complete odds with his positions as an Illinois Senator you would have something. But you don't have anything other than empty rhetoric based on a couple of votes. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 2:51 PM"No, but working in a bipartisan manner in foreign relations committees in the Senate does. "
You mean the time he should have been in the senate, but was actually campaigning?
"Which of course is false."
No Jeff, he was clearly eying the whitehouse from day one, thus making his entire time in the senate suspect -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Wed, September 3, 2008 - 11:41 AM<<"No, but working in a bipartisan manner in foreign relations committees in the Senate does. "
You mean the time he should have been in the senate, but was actually campaigning? >>
More misleading garbage. Your claim that he missed the majority of the meetings for committees that were related to foreign policy is thus far unsupported. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Wed, September 3, 2008 - 11:54 AMnot unsupported Jeff. It is commonly known that he missed many days in the senate due to his run for the presidency, and I also posted a blog (yes questionable, but reference his senate attendance. I am willing to give it the benefit of the doubt) that highlighted similar behavior in his veterans affairs committee -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Wed, September 3, 2008 - 12:20 PM<<not unsupported Jeff.
Yeah, if you consider inuendo with no factual data on committe attendence to be support, then have it mr.... but that does not make it either factual or correct when you make definitive statements about that which is not defniitive nor proven..
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:08 PM"Yeah, I am sure you "hear" all kinds of stuff..... but what about demonstrating your claim that he missed those meetings? See, you are doing exactly as I said......you are trying to downplay his actual foreign policy experience while ignoring that no matter how small it may be, it is still more than Palin."
This isn't concerning his attencence to his foreign relation committees, but it does highlight his attendance problems in the Senate. Again, this is quite common for someone who is campaigning. The problem only arises when you consider his entire career there has been dedicated to seeking higher political office, and not doing the job he was elected for
"Illinois’ disabled veterans are at “rock bottom” — “dead last” — in benefits and claims processing of applications for disability. But Illinois’ veterans take a back seat because their junior senator is running for president. And that senator, Barack Obama, has missed an astonishing number of hearings and meetings of the Senate Veterans committee.
Obama is nothing if not audacious in touting his veterans committee membership as contributing to his “foreign policy” experience for the presidency, while his own state’s veterans suffer. The Chicago Sun-Times ran a devastating investigative series in 2004-2005 (see Truthout) that showed that Illinois’ veterans rank last, or near-last (depends on the graph) in disability awards of the 50 states and Puerto Rico (Illinois average: $6,961; New Mexico average: $12,004). The New York Times’s 2007 article shows Illinois’ disabled soldiers are still waiting over two years later: “Illinois, which has deployed the sixth-highest number of soldiers of any state, has the second-largest backlog.”
Sen. Obama admitted he didn’t know anything about problems at Walter Reed before the WaPo’s shattering series. And Sen. Obama has missed KEY votes for disabled veterans — including a measure that would create “common disability ratings.”
Obama claimed that veterans committee was “one of my first priorities.” He said, “One of my first priorities was obtaining a seat on the Veterans Committee…And the thing that I pledged when I was sworn in as the Senator was that if nothing else in the first couple of years in the Senate, I could make absolutely certain that there would have been a strong advocate in the United States Senate,” at a Veterans Town Hall Meeting, May 23, 2005.
But Obama has skipped 19 of 37 VA committee meetings in the 109th congress. Obama’s attendance record was the second worst of all Democrats on the committee. He attended just 18 of the committee’s 37 meetings in Washington D.C."
noquarterusa.net/blog/2007...campaigns/ -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:32 PMThis link spells out McSame's actual voting records on veterans' and military issues.
www.veteransforcommonsense.org/ar...559
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:39 PM<<This isn't concerning his attencence to his foreign relation committees,
Yes it is, that is EXACTLY what you said.....and you said so in response to the information presented about his actual foreign policy experience in those exact committees. Dustin: "How many days did he actually attend those meetings. I remember reading that he was absent most of the time"
Speaking about his absence from what were primarily amendments to bills already voted on has nothing to do with foreign policy. You are now changing the subject to attendence when we were duscussing foreign policy experience. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:48 PM"Speaking about his absence from what were primarily amendments to bills already voted on has nothing to do with foreign policy. You are now changing the subject to attendence when we were duscussing foreign policy experience."
You brought up his membership in various foreign policy committees as proof that he has experience in the field. His attendence, or lack there of, speaks directly to the topic
"But Obama has skipped 19 of 37 VA committee meetings in the 109th congress. Obama’s attendance record was the second worst of all Democrats on the committee"
And from this, it seems he has a habit of missing such meetings. SO besides a committee that he never went to, what other foreign policy experience does he have? -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:10 PM<<You brought up his membership in various foreign policy committees as proof that he has experience in the field. His attendence, or lack there of, speaks directly to the topic
Then demonstrate your claim in regards to his attendence at those committee meetings. Demonstrating overall attendance does not demonstrate his attendence at those meetings.
<<But Obama has skipped 19 of 37 VA committee meetings in the 109th congress
Obama was not on the VA committee as far as I know. But as a veteran I know that he has voted for the interests of my brothers and sisters in arms, and McCain has voted against those interests. Simple choice. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:16 PM"Then demonstrate your claim in regards to his attendence at those committee meetings. Demonstrating overall attendance does not demonstrate his attendence at those meetings."
It clearly implies a trend -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:46 PM<<It clearly implies a trend
A trend which was reflected primarily by either proceedural or amendment votes (which constitute the lions share of actual voting). It says NOTHING about foreign committee meetings. What SHOULD demonstrate his work on those committees is bipartisan work and respect he has recieved while working with Republicans on foreign policy issues. Namely with people like Chuck Hagel who were impressed enough while working with Obama on foreign relations that he has endorsed him across party lines. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 2:02 PM"It says NOTHING about foreign committee meetings. "
So why should he treat a foreign intelligence meeting any different then he does these veteran affairs meetings that he describes as "One of my first priorities was obtaining a seat on the Veterans Committee…And the thing that I pledged when I was sworn in as the Senator was that if nothing else in the first couple of years in the Senate, I could make absolutely certain that there would have been a strong advocate in the United States Senate"
If he missed the majority of these meetings, that were his "first priority", then how would he treat one that was second on the list? -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 2:45 PM<<And the thing that I pledged when I was sworn in as the Senator was that if nothing else in the first couple of years in the Senate, I could make absolutely certain that there would have been a strong advocate in the United States Senate
Which he has done to a large extent, and that is why veterans groups are overwhelmingly supporting Obama. While McCain has largely failed veterans
Please post your link in regards to missed VA meetings, you just posted a quote from some unknown source. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 3:16 PMYou are now trying to change the subject. you brought up Obama's time working on various foreign policy committees in the Senate as proof of his experiance in the field. Now that the question of his attendance at such meeting has been directly questioned, you are now trying to switch it to a question on his veterans policy. Face it, his claim to experience is weak -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 3:23 PM<<Now that the question of his attendance at such meeting has been directly questioned
You have not proven his attendance record at those meetings. You quote is not named, nor is it sourced. Why are you avoiding posting the link for your quote? -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 6:34 PM"You have not proven his attendance record at those meetings. You quote is not named, nor is it sourced. Why are you avoiding posting the link for your quote?"
Yeah, I couldn't fiind the information on his attendance, hence I am stuck with the fact that he has missed more then a querter of his time in the senate, and more then half of his meeting on the VA committee, the one that was suppose to be his number one focus. According to these numbers, I see no problem in assuming that his attendance in the foreign policy committees was similar. If you have proof that discredits this assertion, in anyway, I would love to see it
PS I posted the link when I quoted the blog -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Wed, September 3, 2008 - 11:50 AM<<PS I posted the link when I quoted the blog
So your proof is once again a blog? -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Wed, September 3, 2008 - 11:55 AMYes, that is why I posted it. Not the best source, i know, but considering his senate attendance record, it doesn't make any unreasonable claims. I am willing to trust it, you don't need to
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 10:24 AMIn particular because Obama's history in the Illinois senate demonstrates his willingness to cross partisan lines and work with the other side. You would know this if you had bothered to research the man beyond the talking heads bloviating on the talk box. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 10:31 AMJeff, why are you trying to make this personal? -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 11:30 AM<<Jeff, why are you trying to make this personal?
I see, I make an observation based on your lack of knowledge of Obama's bipartisan experience and you take it personal..... But you flat out call me nasty names and personally insult me in a denigrating manner and that is deserved. Gotcha, that makes sense Dustin. You seem awfully sensitive for a man that has no problem dishing out venemous vitriol. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 11:38 AMNo Jeff, you are beginning to attack me for raising questions
"But you flat out call me nasty names and personally insult me in a denigrating manner and that is deserved."
Yes, because you attack me like you are doing now. How do you expect me to respond?
"You seem awfully sensitive for a man that has no problem dishing out venemous vitriol."
Not at all. i am personally fine with allowing the debate to degrade. I am just trying to prevent it from happening -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 11:58 AMDust....... Either be that badass tough guy and take what you give of STFU and go pet your cat. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:09 PMEnlilson, as I said, i am more then happy letting this turn into an insult fest, but honestly, what would be the point? -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:46 PM<<Enlilson, as I said, i am more then happy letting this turn into an insult fest,
Calling someone an idiot is an insult, that is the vitriol you tend to engage in Dustin. Indicating that you have not properly researched a subject you are attempting to speak with authority on is not an insult, it is an observation. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:54 PMNo, it is a polite way of calling someone an idiot. I rather do away with the fake as- kissing and just get down to business. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:22 PM<<No, it is a polite way of calling someone an idiot.
Wrong. Having a lack of information on a subject, or failing to inform yourself on a subject does not = idiot.
id·i·ot (d-t)
n.
1. A foolish or stupid person.
2. A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
Unless....you are redefining the english language.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 1:24 PM<<I rather do away with the fake as- kissing and just get down to business.
Huh? Who is ass kissing? This is an illogical statement.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:44 PM<<No Jeff, you are beginning to attack me for raising questions
No, I am not attacking you. Just correctly pointing out that you have not bothered to educate yourself on Obama's record.
<<Yes, because you attack me like you are doing now. How do you expect me to respond?
You periodically come back with these claims, but you see attacks where none exist. I indicate you have not properly read up on Obama's bipartisanship. You use nasty playground vitriolic name calling. Not even comparible Dustin.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 10:01 AMLet's put the mayor of a town of 6500 in as quarterback of the nuclear "football." Makes perfectly good coaching sense to me.
And just remember: anybody who questions the wisdom of this is engaged in a "smear campaign." -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 10:05 AM<< Let's put the mayor of a town of 6500 in as quarterback of the nuclear "football." Makes perfectly good coaching sense to me. >>
uspolitics.tribe.net/photos/...fd964838
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 10:09 AM"Let's put the mayor of a town of 6500 in as quarterback of the nuclear "football." Makes perfectly good coaching sense to me. "
Uhm, she's governor now.
Let's put a guy in charge of the nuclear football who has had experience in national office for less than four years as one vote among a hundred, has had zero executive experience even though the presidency is an executive position, and has spent most of his brief political career pursuing higher political ambitions. Makes sense to me.
"And just remember: anybody who questions the wisdom of this is engaged in a "smear campaign.""
Just love the straw men around here. Please identify who has called criticizing Palin's inexperience a "smear?" I haven't. The only person who called criticizing inexperience a "smear" was someone from your side in response to criticisms of Obama's inexperience.
And just remember; anybody who criticizes Obama for any of his policies is either a racist or is attacking his patriotism. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 10:22 AM"The only person who called criticizing inexperience a "smear" was someone from your side in response to criticisms of Obama's inexperience. "
Was this before or after it was considered racist? -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 10:27 AM<<Was this before or after it was considered racist?
Red Herring. : )~
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 10:27 AM<<And just remember; anybody who criticizes Obama for any of his policies is either a racist or is attacking his patriotism. >>
You should be able to provide links for this then since it is so ubiquitous. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 10:31 AM"You should be able to provide links for this then since it is so ubiquitous. "
Some people did make that claim. I believe the red phone add was claimed to be racist, and others said that calling Obama inexperienced was just racist "code" -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 10:57 AMVery few did. I thought we were talking about the hypocritical liberals in this tribe. That seems to be the talking point of the day.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 11:31 AM<<Some people did make that claim.
Not in this thread. Red Herring. : )~
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 10:32 AM
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 11:53 AMobama has zero executive government experience
biden has zero executive government experience
mccain has zero executive government experience
palin does have executive government experience
so what now?
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 9:55 AM<<Uhm, she's governor now.
For 20 months. And Zero foreign policy experience.
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 11:42 AMis palin's experience really based on russia being so close to alaska? that's what some people are saying, including cindy mccain. sounds to me like that's a bit of a reach. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Mon, September 1, 2008 - 12:24 PMSince no one has brought that up here, it only serves as a red herring -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 9:57 AM<<Since no one has brought that up here, it only serves as a red herring
We are talking about experience, this includes foreign policy experience. Subsequently you are once again using a term incorrectly. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 10:01 AMJeff, no one has used that as an example for foreign policy experience because we all acknowledge that the idea is fucking retarded. So in this instance the point is totally irrelevant, and is nothing more then a Red Herring -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 10:26 AM<<Jeff, no one has used that as an example for foreign policy experience because we all acknowledge that the idea is fucking retarded.
Cindy McCain did. -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 10:32 AMYes, and does she post on this board? So the point is still irrelevant -
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 11:33 AMYes, it is irrelevant to talk about the claims of the McCain campaign in regards to Palin's experience, in a thread about Palin's experience...... LOL...... You crack me up! : )
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Re: Obama, Pailin and experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 9:43 AM<<If McCain/Palin are elected, there's only a small chance that Palin will have to become president upon the death or incapacitation of McCain
The chances are not small, McCain is in his 70s with a history of cancer.
<<Nothing in Obama's history holds a candle to her record in that respect.
Certainly, if you narrow the discussion to that ONE issue.
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Here is some of her experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 11:51 AMYe Lovers of Palin might what to take a gander at an Alaskan blog that has the local view on this lady.........it seems that the Wicked Witch of the Northwest has plenty of fans.
www.andrewhalcro.com -
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Re: Here is some of her experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:02 PMwhy should I even be concerned with the view of this person? I know nothing about them, and have no metric to judge them by -
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Re: Here is some of her experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:07 PMDont be a complete waste of type on the page. this blog goes backs months and it is from folks in the area leaving what they think and feel about the Governor and the 1st Dude. If you are unable to take in different points of view and only think that some fox blog and others like are worth reading it are wetting themselves with joy at their mission accomplished in the metrics department. -
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Re: Here is some of her experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:10 PMNo, I am just asking what dictates this this person deserves more consideration then the rest of the yahoos on the net. Really, what have they done to warrant consideration? -
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Re: Here is some of her experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:13 PMThe paragraph. . .such a modest, but excellent invention. . .you don't have to pay royalties if you use it, you know. .
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Re: Here is some of her experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:17 PMI guess you need to ask yourself what is the difference between them the MSM and your opinion for that matter. To me they are all the same and at some point in time if your are connected to your heart it will send you a clear messages as to which path to follow Other than that I really dont know how to guide ya on this one Dust.
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Re: Here is some of her experience
Tue, September 2, 2008 - 12:10 PMPalin's Abuse of Power
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 2008-07-18 14:01.
The messages on this blog seem to be concentrating on the issue with Trooper Wooten; however, I see some other truths in your message. "Walt Monegan got fired because he had the audacity to tell Governor Palin no, when apparently nobody is allowed to say no to Governor Palin." "According to the Legislative Finance Agency, the public safety budget in fy09 was cut by .06% while the governor's own budget increased 22.6%." Since she first took over many shady deals have taken place within the State system. She has appointed friends to exempt positions with no experience in the area they were working in. These people then proceed to run their Departments or Divisions as they see fit, promoting employees in the classified services promotions without a recruitment process, changing job duties at will (without rewriting job decsriptions), rewriting job descriptions that give some employee promotions to new positions and other employees the work they are supposed to be doing for the "new job". The atmosphere is such that employees cannot say anything about these problems without being punished in various suble and not so subtle ways. The Gov. is also expanding her Anchorage office by about 20 office spaces, requiring other state employees to move so her office can have more space. Someone should look into the turnover that happened in many departments. Look at the number of long term employees that left, look at the number of vacancies, look at how long it takes to fill vacancies. Morale among State employees is as low as I have ever seen it in over 20 years. Yet we recently got the following message requesting that we make suggestions on how to cut the budget. "From: Rehfeld, Karen J (GOV) Subject: $20 Million Savings Target Good Morning – I have received some feedback from legislators who are hearing from their constituents that we are “cutting the FY09 budget” and impacting services. In response, I explained the governor’s concern about managing the growth in the operating budget and her goal in setting the $20 million savings target. I let them know that we have asked agencies to see what we may be able to accomplish in savings in FY09 by managing those things we have control over, finding efficiencies, and implementing changes in business processes and practices that could ultimately result in some savings. We used 2.9% of GF personal services to establish the savings target so that departments would have a number to work toward, but we did not suggest that savings would have to come from personal services. We encourage departments to look at all line items for potential savings. We typically end up with a GF lapse at the end of the year without imposing any savings targets. We have NOT asked agencies to cut services or positions. We have suggested delaying the filling of vacant positions or reassigning work, if possible, to achieve some savings. " I am thinking that maybe Walt Monegan told her that her could not cut the budget further without cutting services. There are many other things happening that people are afraid to talk about because we need our jobs.
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