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Now we know. The final report from last year by the NIST said that it wasn't demolition or diesel fires, but fires fueled by office furnishings that caused building seven to collapse.
www.popularmechanics.com/scien...4.html
>>Today's report confirms that a fire was, indeed, the cause. "This is the first time that we are aware of, that a building taller than about 15 stories has collapsed primarily due to fires," Sunder told reporters at the press conference. "What we found was that uncontrolled building fires—similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings—caused an extraordinary event, the collapse of WTC7." The unprecedented nature of the event means that understanding the precise mechanism of the collapse is important not just to answer conspiracy theorists' questions, but to improve safety standards in the engineering of large buildings.<<
>>According to Sunder: "For the first time we have shown that fire can induce a progressive collapse."<<
Aint that cool.
www.popularmechanics.com/scien...4.html
>>Today's report confirms that a fire was, indeed, the cause. "This is the first time that we are aware of, that a building taller than about 15 stories has collapsed primarily due to fires," Sunder told reporters at the press conference. "What we found was that uncontrolled building fires—similar to fires experienced in other tall buildings—caused an extraordinary event, the collapse of WTC7." The unprecedented nature of the event means that understanding the precise mechanism of the collapse is important not just to answer conspiracy theorists' questions, but to improve safety standards in the engineering of large buildings.<<
>>According to Sunder: "For the first time we have shown that fire can induce a progressive collapse."<<
Aint that cool.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 7:25 PMOh, no, wait. Someone disagrees with NIST's brilliant research . . .
www.globalresearch.ca/index.php
The Hess/Jennings testimony part is really sexy! -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 7:31 PMBurning office furniture brought down building 7.
Yeah right! -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 7:57 PMnow that's funny. No one has ever claimed burning office furniture brought down bldg 7
But hey whatever keeps your tinfoil hat on.... -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 10:47 PM"Just another one of things." There about 1,000 of those "things" on September 11, 2001 - a day of synchronicity par excellance.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 11:38 AMBrent, i like how you missed the point. NIST - Bush's bitch - was who, in the end, could come up with nothing other than office furnishings. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 1:07 PMOK now its fingers in the ears time>>>>>>>>
NIST is an agency of the US Department of Commerce. During the years it was writing its World Trade Center reports, therefore, it was an agency of the Bush-Cheney administration. In 2004, the Union of Concerned Scientists put out a document charging this administration with “distortion of scientific knowledge for partisan political ends.” By the end of the Bush administration, this document had been signed by over 15,000 scientists, including 52 Nobel Laureates and 63 recipients of the National Medal of Science. [10]
Moreover, a scientist who formerly worked for NIST has reported that it has been “fully hijacked from the scientific into the political realm,” with the result that scientists working for NIST “lost [their] scientific independence, and became little more than ‘hired guns.’”11 Referring in particular to NIST’s work on the World Trade Center, he said everything had to be approved by the Department of Commerce, the National Security Agency, and the Office of Management and Budget---“an arm of the Executive Office of the President,” which “had a policy person specifically delegated to provide oversight on [NIST’s] work.” [12]
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 1:15 PMheres another riddle for Burnt, Jeff and Rawwwwwnnn and any other official story tellers to explain for us less enlighted>>>>>
But when asked whether it had, NIST said No. A reporter asked Michael Newman, a NIST spokesman, about this failure, saying: “[W]hat about that letter where NIST said it didn’t look for evidence of explosives?” Newman replied: “Right, because there was no evidence of that.” “But,” asked the reporter “how can you know there’s no evidence if you don’t look for it first?” Newman replied: “If you’re looking for something that isn’t there, you’re wasting your time . . . and the taxpayers’ money.” [29] (You couldn’t make this stuff up.) -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 2:14 PM> But when asked whether it had, NIST said No. A reporter asked Michael Newman, a NIST spokesman, about this failure, saying: “[W]hat about that letter where NIST said it didn’t look for evidence of explosives?” Newman replied: “Right, because there was no evidence of that.” “But,” asked the reporter “how can you know there’s no evidence if you don’t look for it first?” Newman replied: “If you’re looking for something that isn’t there, you’re wasting your time . . . and the taxpayers’ money.” [29] (You couldn’t make this stuff up.)
They also didn't look for evidence of Space Aliens or Bigfoot bringing down the towers but there might be evidence that it was...
Considering that there was no obvious evidence for controlled demolition, there was no need search for that.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 1:20 PManother one of the point the official story tellers used was there was no melted steel
Molten Metal: In addition to the ignored evidence already pointed out, NIST also, in its investigation of the WTC, ignored reports that the rubble contained lots of molten metal – which most people described as molten steel. For example, firefighter Philip Ruvolo, speaking of the Twin Towers, said: “You'd get down below and you'd see molten steel, molten steel, running down the channel rails, like you're in a foundry, like lava." [31]
Peter Tully, president of Tully Construction, which was involved in the clean-up operation, said that he saw pools of “literally molten steel.” [32]
However, when John Gross, one of the main authors of NIST’s reports, was asked about the molten steel, he said to the questioner: I challenge your “basic premise that there was a pool of molten steel,” adding: “I know of absolutely no . . . eyewitness who has said so.”[33]
However, in addition to Ruvolo and Tully, the eyewitnesses who said so included:
• Leslie Robertson, a member of the engineering firm that designed the Twin Towers. [34]
• Dr. Ronald Burger of the National Center for Environmental Health. [35]
• Dr. Alison Geyh of The Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, who headed up a scientific team that went to the site shortly after 9/11 at the request of the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences. [36]
• Finally, the fact that “molten steel was also found at WTC 7” was added by Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition, Inc., which was involved in the clean-up. [37] -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 1:39 PMsee we can go round the im right and your stupid arguments until jjjeeeeeesussuss comes back
but that proves nothing
this site is just discussion
many americans want investigations
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 2:18 PM> olten Metal: In addition to the ignored evidence already pointed out, NIST also, in its investigation of the WTC, ignored reports that the rubble contained lots of molten metal – which most people described as molten steel. For example, firefighter Philip Ruvolo, speaking of the Twin Towers, said: “You'd get down below and you'd see molten steel, molten steel, running down the channel rails, like you're in a foundry, like lava." [31]
Hurm, what might look like molten steel but melts at a significantly lower temperature... hurm... aluminum perhaps? No, there wasn't any aluminum in the towers, except for filing cabinets, desk chairs, desks, AC ducts, dror knobs and hinges, door frames, window frames, acoustic tile frames, refrigerators...
but nah, it must have been steel.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek) -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 3:04 PMEvidence schmevidence. There is none. All the forensic evidence was hauled off before it could be properly examined. This is a ridiculous argument about vapor.
Time for a new commission. Then let the whistleblowers come in out of the cold and show us and tell us the real hard stuff. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 3:21 PM> All the forensic evidence was hauled off before it could be properly examined.
Properly examine?!? How do you properly examine a few MILLION TONS of debris?
and btw, it took weeks to haul it all away and sample were being taken at the disposal sites, many pieces are still warehoused.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek) -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 8:13 PMwww.youtube.com/watch
You know, Rodent, you're not just insulting our intelligence. You insulting yours too. Are you playing dumb? Yeah, you are. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 1:25 AM> www.youtube.com/watch
> You know, Rodent, you're not just insulting our intelligence. You insulting yours too. Are you playing dumb? Yeah, you are.
HAHAHAHAHAAHA
"Eleven days after the attack they immediately decided..."
fucking precious.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 7:14 AM -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 9:03 AM> www.youtube.com/watch
> But I am sure no one will watch this.
"but by 5:23pm most of the fires had been extinguished"
Hurm, then what's all that smoke on the other side of the building?
"it doesn't fall sideways nor collapse unevenly"
um, except that it did.
"but National Institute of Standards and Technology still rules out controlled demolition"
Perhaps because there was no evidence that there was controlled demolition. Main point of fact, no sharp sounds of explosives consistent with EVERY explosive demolition in history. None, zero, nada, nothing.
"So, the question is, do you believe what you can see with your own eyes?"
Sure, just like I totaly believe that this man sawed a woman in half, I mean can't you believe what you see here www.youtube.com/watch
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 9:40 AMThat's been gone over a million times. But one thing to note was that with the controlled demolition examples, the audible rat a tat tat sign of cutter explosions can be heard far away, yet there is no record of that with any recording or video of WTC7/ Why? Because there were no cutter explosions in WTC7.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 7:24 AM<<<<Evidence schmevidence. There is none. All the forensic evidence was hauled off before it could be properly examined. This is a ridiculous argument about vapor.
Time for a new commission. Then let the whistleblowers come in out of the cold and show us and tell us the real hard stuff.>>>>
If one were to accept your first premise it would then follow that the new commission would then not consider evidence but
listen to unsubstantiated and unverifiable opinions.
Sounds like something I'd want my tax dollars squandered on.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:46 AM"No, there wasn't any aluminum in the towers, except for filing cabinets, desk chairs, desks, AC ducts, dror knobs and hinges, door frames, window frames, acoustic tile frames, refrigerators... "
And big ass aluminum bodied airplanes filled with jet fuel that crashed into them.
But hey, the presence of aluminum is evidence of thermite, since aluminum is in thermite!
It's also, of course, evidence of the presence of filing cabinets, desk chairs, desks, AC ducts, door knobs and hinges, door frames, window frames, acoustic tile frames, refrigerators, and passenger airplanes, but they choose to ignore that.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:42 AMHow exactly would they know it's molten steel, rather than some other metal, like aluminum? Did those fire fighters immediately set up their chemistry sets and test the composition of the molten material?
And how the presence of molten metal supports a controlled demolition is anyone's guess, since no controlled demolition has ever been shown to leave molten metal.
This is one of their many "It's weird, therefore it supports a controlled demolition!" non-sequitur leaps of illogic. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 6:29 AMI can't believe you guys actually think you're getting somewhere arguing about this crap. These are all diversions from the real issue now which is to get a new investigation with amnesty for whistleblowers. Then you'll see some real molten metal. That will be the public waking up to the enormity of the con that has been played on them. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 9:11 AM> I can't believe you guys actually think you're getting somewhere arguing about this crap.
And we would say the same to you. The only problem is, the evidence is on our side.
> These are all diversions from the real issue now which is to get a new investigation with amnesty for whistleblowers.
The Bush administration couldn't even keep the outing of a CIA officer secret and that took only 5 people. To pull off the 911 conspiracy would have taken hundreds if not thousands of people to do and yet not one has surfaced, not one. You'd think that at the height of the truthers popularity a few years ago, SOMEONE would have stepped up if even for just the book deal. Funny that.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 9:36 AMand martial law is just around the corner, and science is about to discover cold fusion, and I will ultimately find all those lost socks, the check's in the mail and your dog will come back. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 9:40 AMand don't forget what has become a tradition in the first year of a new adminstration that any day now Obama will announce the presence of space aliens. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 1:58 PMDo you guys actually think these lame rhetorical tricks work? My god. You all sound like old duffers at the rest home giving the orderlies what for. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 2:03 PM> Do you guys actually think these lame rhetorical tricks work?
Ok Solari, here is a simple, non rhetorical question. Lets see if you can answer it.
Why is there no distinct, sharp sounds of explosions preceding the WTC7 collapse?
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rodent (putting the eek in geek) -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 2:39 PMHave you done any research on these subjects at all? Apparently not. Go get some learning, Rodent. Then come back to class and raise your hand.
www.youtube.com/watch -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 3:19 PMExplosion sounds during a purposeful demolition must immediately precede the actual collapse, and this is not what is happening in your video. What we do know is that debris falling from the buildings and crashing in the ground (including human bodies splatting) most definately sound like explosions. In addition, explosion sounds during the collapse don't count either being that this sound is created by thousands of tons of steel and concrete on each floor collapsing in to each other. The *pop pop pop pop* sounds must immediately precede any purposeful demolition, and you simply don't have evidence for that. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 3:52 PM"Explosion sounds during a purposeful demolition must immediately precede the actual collapse, and this is not what is happening in your video"
This was not your typical demo as witness the pools of molten metal persisting for weeks afterwards in the rubble.
I'm playing this stupid troll game for the umpteenth time here jsut for the benefit of viewers like Rodent who haven't really don any research ito the topic.
"Jeff" is trying to get the "endless loop" that goes nowhere started up again because that is what professional debunkers do. Anything but a new investigation or any talk thereof! -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 5:51 PM"This was not your typical demo as witness the pools of molten metal persisting for weeks afterwards in the rubble. "
That's funny.
- Proof that this was a demo is how it looks exactly like a typical demo!
- Well, what about these characteristics that make it not look like a typical demo?
- It was an atypical demo!
You really don't see the contradiction there?
Funny stuff -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 7:14 AMwell ron obviously it was an atypical typical controlled demolition!!
lol
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 5:56 PM"as witness the pools of molten metal persisting for weeks afterwards in the rubble.
If the pools of molten metal are not like any other demo, how are the pools of molten metal then evidence of a demo?
Gomer and Wilbur driving down a dirt road.
Gomer: Hey, look at that snake!
Wilbur: That's not a snake. It's a cow.
Gomer. Of course it's a snake. Look. It has a head and a body and a tail, just like a snake.
Wilbur: It 's also walking on four legs and has an udder, much unlike a snake.
Gomer: That proves it's a very unusual snake!
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 5:41 PM<<This was not your typical demo as witness the pools of molten metal persisting for weeks afterwards in the rubble
Huh? Solari, I thought you and your group claimed that it was a Demo because it was typical of a purposeful demolition. And now you come back and say it was not typical? You just changed your story because I pointed out that your so called demolition explosive sounds don't fit the pattern of a purposeful demolition.
Explain EXACTLY what kind of purposeful demolition would have explosions, then hours later the building collapses?
In addition, there is nothing odd about aluminum becoming red hot and molten during a fire, I have done it with beer cans in a campfire. In addition, when you have fires burning under mounds of debris, it creates forge-like conditions. I know this from firsthand knowledge being that my company has worked with burning landfills.
<<Jeff" is trying to get the "endless loop" that goes nowhere started up again because that is what professional debunkers do.
I see that the veracity of my argument has you convinced that I am a professional. Thank you for the compliment, but the simple fact is that I once thought as you about 9-11. The difference is that once I delved in to BOTH sides of the argument, and reviewed the evidence, I had to come back and admit I was wrong. Some people don't have the ability to admit to themselves or others that they are mistaken, as you were in putting up a video of explosions sounds LONG before the building actually collapsed. What you are proposing is an impossibility. As is the idea that explosives could sit in the middle of a raging fire without actually detonating. In other words, your argument is full of holes.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 7:21 PM> Have you done any research on these subjects at all? Apparently not.
Yes I have. I know much more about explosive and multistory building demolition than you. That much is obvious.
> Go get some learning, Rodent. Then come back to class and raise your hand.
You are one class act. Actually you show little to no understanding of the subject and no interest in learning. Go back to school and stop pretending to be more than a preschool teacher.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 3:11 PM<<“You'd get down below and you'd see molten steel, molten steel, running down the channel rails, like you're in a foundry, like lava."
Aluminum will become molten in a simple camp fire. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 3:58 PMThis reminds me. Any new investigation would certainly have to subpoena the firefigter in this video who was yelling "The building's about to blow up!" That guy has some interesting information for sure.
www.youtube.com/watch -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 5:49 PMSubpoena power is backed by government authorities. So if an new investigation has subpoena power, it has to be dependent on the government. So any new investigation with subpoena power that doesn't result in the conclusions the truthers are obsessed with will just be dismissed as another government coverup. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 6:10 PMLike I say - we takes those chances.
The last kangaroo court was not even close what one expects in a democracy. The chances of discovery would perhaps be much better this time. The real value would be not in formal prosecution but in simply admitting to record testimony excluded by the original commission, and then making that testimony accessible to the public. The Pentagon Papers did not send anyone to jail, but the mission was accomplished anyway. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 12:17 AMSol, i admire how polite you are to Ron. I'm so beyond patience with his flat denial of any questionable aspect of this story.
Ron, you do NOT question. You only look for what can make your take on this issue look plausible. You do NOT have a scientific approach. You have a political - actually, an ego - agenda. You don't have the objectivity to question sqarely one aspect of the official story, no matter how many questionable aspects there are. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 12:50 AM"I'm so beyond patience with his flat denial of any questionable aspect of this story."
So you get frustrated whenever anyone questions repeatedly debunked truther propaganda and disinformation.
You confuse blind opposition to any official story with the capacity to question. If you were really prone to questioning, you'd question the disinformation, distortions, conscious omissions, outright lies and fabrications, and aversion to facing facts that undercut their agenda that comes out of the truther crowd. But since it supports your side, you don't question it. That defines a lack of objectivity.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 12:55 AM"Like I say - we takes those chances. "
Bullshit. The truther crowd has abjectly rejected any study that rejects their conclusions, whether from the government or independent sources, going so far as to accuse such studies as being part of the conspiracy. Any future investigation or study that doesn't square with truther propaganda will be likewise dismissed. Past is prologue.
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NO CHANCE OF NEW INVESTIGATION
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 1:53 AMSolari I notice that you have dodged the logical implications of your own claim:
"Evidence schmevidence. There is none. All the forensic evidence was hauled off before it could be properly examined."
Hence the 'chances of discovery' would be much less this time, and all 'discoveries' would be pure unsubstantiated conjecture for as you claim - all the evidence is gone. -
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Re: NO CHANCE OF NEW INVESTIGATION
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 7:40 AMPay attention here class. When one says that the evidence is gone that also includes all the testimony excluded by the 911 commission and all the testimony so colored by the government "minders" that it might as well be gone, but it is not irretrievable. Many of the witnessess are still alive and with proper protections still willing to retestify. May I remind you also that one does not need a murder weapon to convict, but one does need "all" the testimony and "all" the witnesses.
It is very telling listening to some of you declaim that a new trial is futile because it might not guarantee a certain result. Were this the attitude of the legal system in general there would in effect be no legal system which is precisely an outcome favored by those who engineer events like 911. The destruction of out Constitution and the further elevation of the "security state" with all the attendant erosions of civil liberties were all made possible by the 911 stage piece. -
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Re: NO CHANCE OF NEW INVESTIGATION
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 9:22 AM> It is very telling listening to some of you declaim that a new trial is futile because it might not guarantee a certain result.
No, we're saying it's a waste of time. There is no evidence that WTC 1, 2 and 7 were controlled demolitions.
Interesting to note, no talk about 6 World Trade Center, 5 World Trade Center, 4 World Trade Center, the Marriott World Trade Center (3 WTC), the World Financial Center complex and St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church that were also destroyed on 9/11.
> Were this the attitude of the legal system in general there would in effect be no legal system which is precisely an outcome favored by those who engineer events like 911.
This is only a valid statement IF the ludicrous, grand conspiracy theory is correct, and that's the flaw in the whole truther argument. You can argue till you're blue in the face that the moon is make out of cheese but you won't get NASA to fund a probe to try and prove it.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek) -
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Re: NO CHANCE OF NEW INVESTIGATION
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 9:54 AM'fraid not, rat. The government minding and intimidation of witnesses in the original investigation which even went so far as to have Cheney babysit the president during his deposition speaks very loudly to there having been a cover up. In a democracy, we declare a mistrial and have a new trial. I seriously
doubt you have any particular allegiance to the democratic process - not really.
As much as characters like you want to pretend that these concerns are laughable and unimportant, there are millions of people who disagree and want to see the thing reopened.
"The third major Zogby poll regarding 9/11 was conducted in August 2007. It was a telephone interview with a target of 1,000 interviews with randomly-selected adults from across the United States, consisting of 71 questions, with a 3.1 percent margin of error.[6]
The results of the 2007 August poll indicate that 51% of Americans want Congress to probe Bush/Cheney regarding the 9/11 attacks and over 30% of those polled seek immediate impeachment. While only 32% seek immediate Bush and/or Cheney impeachment based on their personal knowledge, many citizens appear eager for clear exposure of the facts.
In addition, the poll also found that two-thirds (67%) of Americans say the 9/11 Commission should have investigated the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7. Only 4.8 percent of the respondents agreed that members of the United States government "actively planned or assisted some aspects of the attack."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_opinion_polls -
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Re: NO CHANCE OF NEW INVESTIGATION
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 2:32 PMSubpoena power is backed by government authorities. So if an new investigation has subpoena power, it has to be dependent on the government. So any new investigation with subpoena power that doesn't result in the conclusions the truthers are obsessed with will just be dismissed as another government coverup.
bullshit bullshit bullshit
with comments like that..................whats the point of a discussion........you have a closed mind agenda and just ignore things that you dont agree with........
explain me how the english reporter is talking about how bld 7 collapsed ...........while over her shoulder in the background its still standing..........and these firefighters are on tape commenting its going to blow up............
while your spinning that one............be clear on FACTS................how you know what backs up your story
cause I have FACTS .........that support my thesis above.............
btw...............no known fire ever, ever, ever brought down a large bld like bld 7,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,before 911
so stick your head in sand and fingers in ears
im waiting for your FACTS
thanks inadvance -
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Re: NO CHANCE OF NEW INVESTIGATION
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 3:28 PMand the quest for straws to grasp moves on...
> xplain me how the english reporter is talking about how bld 7 collapsed ...........while over her shoulder in the background its still standing.
First of all, link to vid?
Second, did she say "collapsed" or "collapsing"? Do realize that it was in the process of collapsing for quite some time. Firefighters heard creaks and groans, the building was visibly leaning and a portion was beginning to sag. Firefighters on the ground and in command knew the building was going to collapse and sad so to the press long before full collapse occurred.
Thirdly, without seeing the vid, how do I know that the building behind her was 7WTC (the correct way to state it BTW)?
> and these firefighters are on tape commenting its going to blow up............
Ever heard of slang? You know, how some phrases mean the opposite of what they appear? For instance, you aren't blowing the building up, you're knocking it down. Or how some people call something "the shit" or that something is "bad" when it's actually describing something positive?
But still, if the firefighter was truely saying that they were literally going to blow the building up, why are there no rappid, sharp, continuous explosions heard in EVERY OTHER BUILDING DEMOLITION?!? No truther has yet to explain that and this is the major failure in your argument.
who's ignoring facts now?
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rodent (putting the eek in geek) -
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Re: NO CHANCE OF NEW INVESTIGATION
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 3:34 PMhey geek
your answer is why an investigation is needed
what are you scared of
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9/11 Commission Doesn't Believe It: Why Do You?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 3:35 PMSaturday, December 09, 2006
The 9/11 Commission Doesn't Believe It: Why Do You?
The 9/11 Commission co-chairs don't believe the 9/11 Commission Report:
The 9/11 Commissioners knew that military officials lied to the Commission, and considered recommending criminal charges for such false statements, yet didn't bother to tell the American people (free subscription required).
The co-chairs of the Commission now admit that the Commission largely operated based upon political considerations.
Chairman Thomas Kean says that the CIA intentionally impeded the 9/11 Commission's investigation and says “I’m upset that [the government] didn’t tell us the truth.”
Co-chair Hamilton says of the CIA's cover up and destruction of tapes of interrogation of people allegedly connected with 9/11:
"Did they obstruct our inquiry? The answer is clearly yes," says Lee Hamilton, who co-chaired the 9/11 Commission, in the wake of reports the CIA destroyed videotapes of interrogations of two al-Qaida suspects. "Whether that amounts to a crime, others will have to judge," adds Hamilton.
Hamilton also says "I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, that the 9/11 debate should continue, and that the 9/11 Commission report was only "the first draft" of history.
Many of the other 9/11 Commissioners don't buy it:
9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that "There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn't have access . . . .
9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said "We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting"
Former 9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: "It is a national scandal"; "This investigation is now compromised"; and "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up".
And many other key players in generating the Report don't believe it:
One of the primary architects of the 9/11 Commission Report, Ernest May, said in May 2005, "We never had full confidence in the interrogation reports as historical sources."
And the high-level attorney who led the 9/11 staff's inquiry, said "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described .... The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years.... This is not spin. This is not true."
They don't believe it. Why do you?
The Co-Chair of the Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 and former Head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Bob Graham, doesn't believe it either. Graham says there was a cover-up orchestrated by the White House:
Senator Bob Graham, the Florida Democrat who is a former chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, accused the White House on Tuesday of covering up evidence . . .
* * *
The accusation stems from the Federal Bureau of Investigation's refusal to allow investigators for a Congressional inquiry and the independent Sept. 11 commission to interview an informant, Abdussattar Shaikh, who had been the landlord in San Diego of two Sept. 11 hijackers.
In his book "Intelligence Matters," Mr. Graham, the co-chairman of the Congressional inquiry with Representative Porter J. Goss, Republican of Florida, said an F.B.I. official wrote them in November 2002 and said "the administration would not sanction a staff interview with the source.'' On Tuesday, Mr. Graham called the letter "a smoking gun" and said, "The reason for this cover-up goes right to the White House."
Postscript: David Ray Griffin sent me the following email after reading this post, clarifying the various stories about the conflicting timelines of the military's response to the hijacked flights (the first and last points cited above):
What the 9/11 Commission calls lies by the military are places where officers have contradicted the Commission’s own new story about why the flights were not intercepted, as I explained in the latter half of “Omissions and Distortions” and more briefly in “Flights of Fancy” (in Christian Faith and the Truth behind 9/11) and then again in the first chapter of Debunking 9/11 Debunking. As I show, the idea that the military would have deliberately told the kinds of lies alleged by the Commission makes absolutely no sense. Why? Because the story that the military told in “NORAD’s Response Times” (Sept. 18, 2001), and continued to tell to the 9/11 Commission, got the military only partly off the hook, because it left them vulnerable to the charge that they had either stood-down their standard procedures or had been incredibly incompetent. According to the new story told by the 9/11 Commission, the FAA didn’t even notify the military about Flights 175, 77, and 93 until after they had crashed. This gets the military completely off the hook, at least for those 3 flights. If that had been the truth, it would have been completely irrational for the military to have lied by saying that the FAA had given them notice in time for them to have intercepted the flights. But the 9/11 Commission could handle the contradictions between its new story and the military’s old story only by claiming that the military had made false statements. (And since it was hard to see how the military officers could have been confused, the inference was made that they had lied.)
This is not to say that the story the military had told was true. It is possible that the old story and the new story are both false. Indeed, I believe that to be the case. E.g., the military’s claim that it was not notified until 9:24 about Flight 77 contradicts the FAA memo, sent to to the Commission by Laura Brown on May 22, 2003, stating that the FAA had been in conversation with the military about Flight 77 long before 9:24. So the Commission knew that the military’s story was a lie. It responded by increasing the lie by suppressing the memo and saying that the FAA NEVER notified the military.)
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Re: NO CHANCE OF NEW INVESTIGATION
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 5:03 PM"explain me how the english reporter is talking about how bld 7 collapsed"
Very obvious explanation. There were reports by firefighters who said that 7 looked like it was about to collapse. It's very easy for such very reports and word of mouth to evolve into something slightly different. "About to collapse" is very close to "collapsed."
There were widespread initial reports that the Fort Hood shooter was dead, and that he was a recent convert to Islam. Both reports turned out to be false. Should we infer a conspiracy?
Think about the logic of what you're suggesting. You're citing that British reporters erroneous report as some evidence of controlled demolition or conspiracy. So the conspirators would give the heads up about what they were going to do to a reporter? Are you fricking serious?
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Re: NO CHANCE OF NEW INVESTIGATION
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 5:16 PM"with comments like that..................whats the point of a discussion........you have a closed mind agenda and just ignore things that you dont agree with........ "
My comment was based on years of experience with truthers. If they were by and large intellectually honest, I wouldn't have made the comment. But their almost universal pattern has been this: They make some claim or ask some question that they imply supports a controlled demolition. The point or question gets answered - they then either misrepresent evidence in response, personally attack the responder, or dodge the subject (the last of which they inevitably do anyway). Then when their new claims are also debunked, they eventually go back to their original claims as if they were never addressed.
That's not intellectually honest, and clearly indicates no desire to simply ask questions or objectively assess the situation and every indication to blindly promote their disinformation propaganda that's solely designed to support their mythology and dismiss anything and anyone who doesn't support likewise. -
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Re: NO CHANCE OF NEW INVESTIGATION
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 5:38 PMYour observations are very neatly countered by the example just posted of the people in charge of the 911 investigation having been themselves highly doubtful of the conclusions of the 911 investigative committee. These men were not being intellectually dishonest and you know it.
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Re: NO CHANCE OF NEW INVESTIGATION
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 5:58 PM<<Subpoena power is backed by government authorities. So if an new investigation has subpoena power, it has to be dependent on the government. So any new investigation with subpoena power that doesn't result in the conclusions the truthers are obsessed with will just be dismissed as another government coverup.
bullshit bullshit bullshit <>>
It is your crowd that indicates that the investigation needs to be independent of the Govt. And at the same time you indicate that any investigation needs subpoena power. You can't have one without the other.
<<and these firefighters are on tape commenting its going to blow up............
Actually, what the tape shows is a firefighter indicating that building is coming down, someone off camera (no demonstration that it is a firefighter) says the word "blow up", which might have been a reasonable assumption being that the building was engulfed in a Diesel fire. Combine this video with vide of the fire fighter indicating that WTC 7 was structurally damaged an on the verge of collapse and it paints a broader and more accurate picture.
Let me ask you this quesiton Stephen. Why do you promote only HALF of the fire fighter video evidence? Why are you trying to only paint HALF the picture of what firefighters on video said? Why ARE you ignoring the following? www.youtube.com/watch
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 5:46 PMSolari, you have to take your fire fighter video in context with this fire fighter video. www.youtube.com/watch
Fire fighters are experts in structural safety, and on 9-11 their expert opinion was that the building was on the verge of collapse. Why do you and other truthers ignore this video? Because this video alone debunks your WTC 7 purposeful demolition theory. www.youtube.com/watch
Unless you think all the firefighters and police were in on 9-11 too?
It is also duly noted that you completely ignored the fact that aluminum will become molten in a simple camp fire. Why are you not addresssing this simple and inconvenient fact Solari? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 5:57 PMBing!!!
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 5:58 PMI'm not talking about any damn firefighter video here. I'm talking about the 911 commission heads who saw what a farce their investigation turned out to be and who want a new one. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 6:00 PMYes you did, you even posted the link to the fire fighter video. How come you ignored the other firefighter video where he indicates the building is leaning and on the verge of collapse? Why post one and not the other? It is a clear demonstration that you are not interested in the full truth, only in reinforcing your preexisting belief. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 6:05 PMHey, bring them all to the table... in the big white hall with the pillars and have them say their piece. I can hardly wait. Let's have it nationally televised too. It'll be like the Nixon tapes times ten. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 6:10 PMSolari, have you watched the video Jeff posted? I've watched the videos from the opposition to make sure that I am informed. It's right here www.youtube.com/watch
Please explain this away.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 6:19 PM<<Hey, bring them all to the table... in the big white hall with the pillars and have them say their piece.
You are not answering my question. Why did you post the one video while ignoring the video that is contrary to your theory?
<< I can hardly wait.
Why would you find excitement in an investigation of a tragedy? -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 7:21 PMA very interesting scientifically approached article can be found here www.journalof911studies.com/ on this subject. It will be found in Volume 19, titled, "Waiting for Seven: WTC 7 Collapse Warnings in the FDNY Oral Histories", by Graeme MacQueen - January 11, 2008
From the intro:
>>On September 11, 2001 there were numerous advance warnings of World Trade Center 7’s collapse, and many people have argued that these warnings are evidence that the building was subjected to controlled demolition. But other researchers feel the warnings are compatible with the hypothesis of natural collapse from damage that the building sustained throughout the day. In this article I examine the arguments of one researcher, Ryan Mackey, who argues, using the oral histories of the New York Fire Department, that the collapse was natural and the warnings rational and based on direct perception. Although I agree with Mackey that the damage to Seven was serious and must be acknowledged as such, I argue that a close reading of the FDNY oral histories does not support his claims and does not remove the cloud of suspicion that hangs over the collapse warnings. The majority of FDNY members did not rationally conclude, on the basis of direct perception of damage to the building, that it was in danger of collapse; they accepted that it would collapse on the basis of what they were told.<<
He goes on:
>>In the debate over the collapse of World Trade Center 7, warnings of the building’s collapse have come to play an important role. In addition to the numerous collapse warnings mentioned in written documents such as those I will be using in this article, we have seen a growing number of videotape fragments and interviews in which people appear to have been told in advance of Seven’s collapse.[1] Many proponents of the controlled demolition hypothesis take these cases, both written and video, as evidence that the building’s collapse was brought about deliberately. How could people have suspected or even known with certainty hours in advance that the building was going to collapse if this collapse was not under human control? These arguments typically try to place the event in historical context, stressing how unusual it was for a steel-framed skyscraper to undergo this kind of total collapse, whether from fire or from other possible causes. In this way they stress the peculiarity and the suspect nature of the advance warnings.
But those who think that Seven’s fall was natural rather than deliberate have not shied away from the collapse warnings. They have simply interpreted them in a different way. In essence, they have said that the warnings were rational and expected given the severe damage Seven had sustained. These researchers may even consider collapse warnings, when combined with other factors, as evidence positively favouring the hypothesis of natural (non-demolition) collapse.<<
Some of the main points about the timeline are summarized on page 5:
>>Before turning directly to Mackey’s argument, I note that almost half of the warnings where time can be estimated were received over two hours in advance of the building’s collapse, and I also note that over half of the total collapse warnings are definite (we are dealing with more than suspicions and worries and estimates). These findings put a burden on any hypothesis of natural collapse.
But let us turn to the third statement I listed in my summary of Mackey’s argument. Is it true that FDNY members rationally concluded from what they perceived that the building was in danger of collapse? Only seven appear to have done so, whereas 50 accepted the collapse prediction from others, typically superiors.
With regard to the fourth point in the argument, is it true that the collapse warnings were mainly the result of a rational conclusion based on observation and training? No. As far as we can tell, no rational conclusion based on direct perception was made in the vast majority of cases.<<
And regarding FDNY Chief Peruggia's testimony on page 7, some interesting speculation:
>>When (EMT) Zarrillo carried Peruggia’s startling news of imminent collapse (of the North Tower) to Chief Ganci, Ganci’s response was, “who the fuck told you that?” [14] Ganci had bet the lives of his firefighters on the stability of the Towers. In fact, the lives of hundreds of firefighters had been wagered on the experience of fire chiefs who never suspected collapse. Ganci had almost certainly been told, like Peruggia and others in the FDNY (see Appendix E), that planes could not cause the Towers to collapse. Ganci is dead—he died in the collapse of the North Tower—but his question remains a good one: Who told you that?
In my view, all three building collapses were peculiar in the extreme, and we have a perfect right to ask who determined that they were going to collapse and on what basis. We need not apologize for asking whether there might have been an “engineer type person” who told crucial members of the FDNY that Seven’s stability was compromised, after which this warning was passed on and largely accepted by the rank and file. (Note Goldbach’s statement in Appendix C that “they said it suffered some form of structural damage”—do we know who “they” refers to?) Exploring this possibility further remains an important task.<<
In any case it is a well put together inquiry on the subject. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 7:29 PMExcellent analysis, Dave.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 7:28 PMSo, let me see if I understand this. We know the building was leaning because a transit was shot showing it leaning. Leaning buildings are bound to fall down straight into their own footprints. Is that the gist of what is being alleged? Fine, bring that to the table; but remember "everything" is going to be brought to the table. That includes people who might have some very, very interesting things to say about who done what when. How about it? You game? -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 7:41 PM<<So, let me see if I understand this. We know the building was leaning because a transit was shot showing it leaning.
Exactly. In addition to visual observation AND testimony by the firefighters dealing with WTC 7.
<<Leaning buildings are bound to fall down straight into their own footprints.
Except that it did not collapse in to its own footprint, you are spreading yet another falsehood. Buildings around WTC 7 were extensively damaged by the collapse. AND the building actually collapsed across Barclay street. This does not = collapsing in to its own footprint.
wtc7lies.googlepages.com/0821....ll.jpg
The above demonstrates that it was exactly NOT like a purposeful demolition, which would not damage any buildings. For the footprint claim to be true, the building would not have collapsed in to other building and would not have collapsed across Barclay street.
<<How about it? You game?
Pony up the $$ and go for it, I don't care either way. My question still remains the following. How do you get subpeona power with a non-govt. independent investigation? What you guys are asking for seems an impossibility. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 7:46 PMGovernment investigation with subpoena power. You act like that is some anomaly. It is done all the time. Remember too that there are likely whistleblowers who do not need to be subpoened but who will come in out of the cold of their own volition.
That you could care less speaks volumes about your true intentions on this forum.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 8:01 PM> fall down straight into their own footprints.
**sigh** we keep pointing out that it didn't fall into their own footprints and you keep ignoring us. And you accuse us of ignoring facts.,
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 8:06 PMIt's time to stop playing this game, Rodent. It's time to call in all the old players and witnesses that were scotched the first time. That is what the perps are terribly, terribly afraid of. If you want to light up the trollboard - bring up the "new investigation" subject. It drives them nuts, yet it is doable, and in fact the many of the original commission members are demanding that it be done. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 1:59 PMSolari, why are you ignoring my demonstration that WTC 7 did not collapse in to its own footprint? Why do you ignore such clear and direct evidence such as the aerial photo that demonstrates your claim is wrong? -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 4:10 PMSighing will do nothing to change the fact that you are ignoring evidence that is clearly contrary to your claims Solari. What are you scared of? -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 4:26 PMAnd Solari still ignores direct evidence. This is the truther M.O.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 4:34 PM"It's time to stop playing this game, Rodent."
You're right. It's time for truthers to put up or shut up and provide actual evidence of a controlled demo or insider conspiracy before they expect others to pay for their witch hunts.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 9:26 PM""**sigh** we keep pointing out that it didn't fall into their own footprints and you keep ignoring us."
Ironically, the "truther" crowd routinely lies.
Falling straight down into its own footprints. Lie (if the Twin Towers did do that, they wouldn't have destroyed local buildings like they did)
One or more of the buildings fell at free fall speed. Lie (even for WTC 7)
"Pull it" is controlled demo jargon meaning to take down a building with explosives. Completely manufactured lie.
Witnesses saw a missile hit the Pentagon. Lie
The building collapses fell symmetrically. Lie.
There were no significant fires at WTC7. Lie.
There was no plane debris at the Pentagon. Lie.
The buildings collapsed just like typical controlled demolitions. Lie.
Steve Jones' controlled demo research has been published in peer reviewed journals. Lie.
Alex Jones predicted the attacks. Lie.
Bush's brother was in charge of WTC security at the time of the attacks. Lie.
WTC7's owner admitted to ordering the demolition. Lie.
The collapse of the buildings violated the laws of physics. Lie (if they are laws of physics, how could the collapses have violated them?)
The Towers allegedly collapsed by fire alone, unlike any other high rise collapse. Lie (remember those two little planes?)
People supporting the official story claim that fire caused steel to melt leading to the collapse, but steel couldn't have melted at those temperatures. Lie (weaken, not melt) -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 3:49 PMThere's another "sigh." What is this - the flu? -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 4:04 PM> There's another "sigh." What is this - the flu?
What is this? Another attempt to ignore how silly your position is?
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rodent (putting the eek in geek) -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 4:08 PM"Sigh" -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 4:10 PM -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 4:14 PMRodent, you're looking in the mirror with that link, my man. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 4:24 PM> Rodent, you're looking in the mirror with that link, my man.
Wrong. I have been putting forth direct evidence and reasonable arguments against the ridiculous claims of the 9/11 conspiracy theory.
If I get snarky about it, that's because the other sides' position is so ridiculous.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 4:38 PMO.k., Rodent. Let me see if I understand your position. Kean. Hamilton, Gramm, Kerrey, Roemer, Cleland, et al who were commission members and who are saying that the commission was a coverup and should be redone are kookspiricists, wackjobs, and twoofers. That about right? -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 5:00 PM> who are saying that the commission was a coverup
The question I have is, a cover up of what? I have yet to see the commissioners speak about explosive demolition and doubt that is what they are referring to. It is more plausible that they are talking about covering up departmental failures that could have prevented the attacks, not the grand conspiracy theory the truthers spout.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 5:01 PMYou understand don't you that some of what these men are addressing such as lack of access to FBI intelligence which might indicate advance knowledge of the attacks are some of the pillars of 911 kookspiricist theory., and that the commission had no access to FFA tapes which probably proved that Norad was well informed of the hijackings long before they claim -more kookspiricy.
Solid gold kookspiricy. These guys are all wacxkjobs, huh? -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 5:09 PMcross posting the same post in multiple threads is bad netiquette.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 5:15 PMThese two threads might as well be conjoined. And you are using an inconsequential technicality to dodge the question. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 5:18 PMdid so in the other thread. meant to link to it.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 11:20 AMSighing will do nothing to change the fact that you are ignoring evidence that is clearly contrary to your claims Solari. What are you scared of? -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 12:05 PMYou know what really sticks out here? How utterly terrified you guys are of a new investigation. Whenever the subject pops up you guys swarm like crazed flies. That tells us something right there. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 1:17 PM>: You know what really sticks out here? How utterly terrified you guys are of a new investigation.
No, we are not terrified, we think it is a complete waste of time and taxpayers money.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 1:30 PM<<You know what really sticks out here? How utterly terrified you guys are of a new investigation. Whenever the subject pops up you guys swarm like crazed flies. That tells us something right there.
This sentence is another demonstration of you going from A to Z with no idea how you got there. You are saying that because we disagree with your version of the facts that we are scared? That is a rediculous assertion. This is a debate tribe, we believe that the information you are putting forth is incorrect. So of course we are going to debate you on this subject, in particular being that 9-11 was one of the most horrific events of our lifetime.
To tell me, how exactly does debating the facts with you indicate that I am scared of an investigation? I have indicated numerous times that I have no problem with another investigation, in particular being that I think it would uncover Bush&Co negligence. I am interested in one thing Solari, the truth, and you sir are putting force falsehoods, inuendo, and assumption as fact. THAT tells us something right there, as does your avoidence of the tough questions. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 7:31 PM"No, we are not terrified, we think it is a complete waste of time and taxpayers money."
Sorry Charlie. The American public wants a new investigation. You want to see the poll numbers again? Faith in democratic institutions has been so damaged by the 911 hoax that it would be a termendously effective use of money to reinvestigate and get to the bottom of it. There is no "closure" on this. The polls show that. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 7:42 PMAnother thing that need to be pointed out here. The WTC 7 collpase is really just a small part of the evidence of inside job. The WTC 7 collapse could be removed entirely fron the invesitagtion , and there would still be tons and tons of other evidence and the potential for hundreds of witnesses to come forward with information. The reason the coverup agents focus so much on WTC 7 is because its an endless loop, unwinnable argument either way. There is no evidence other than visual because all the main evidence was hauled off. That is why NIST spent seven years coming up with an explanation. They had no forensics to work with.
WTC 7 could be ignored entirely, and still a new investigation would be warranted. However, a new investigation would have quite a large potential of new witnesses coming forth concerning WTC 7, so in that sense it is very important to a new investigation. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 7:54 PM> there would still be tons and tons of other evidence
Like what? Please be specific.
> There is no evidence other than visual
And audio, which is the major debunk for the controlled demolition argument (of which you continue to ignore)
> because all the main evidence was hauled off.
and the evidence you're speaking of would be what in particular? Please be specific.
> That is why NIST spent seven years coming up with an explanation...
That is your opinion and not fact. It is a conclusion you manufactured based on your flawed theory.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Fri, November 13, 2009 - 10:20 AM<< The WTC 7 collpase is really just a small part of the evidence of inside job.
Except that I decimated your so called evidence. Fall in to its own footprint? Did not happen. Fire Fighters indicating that the building was leanign and on the verge of collapse? This did happen, and it is the most direct evidence we have in regards to WTC 7.
<<The WTC 7 collapse could be removed entirely fron the invesitagtion , and there would still be tons and tons of other evidence
Evidence that I could just as easily decimate.
<<There is no evidence other than visual because all the main evidence was hauled off.
Fire fighters who are trained in structural safety and who are firsthand witnesses is best possible evidence.
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 7:55 PM> Sorry Charlie. The American public wants a new investigation. You want to see the poll numbers again?
I would like to see poll numbers that are not almost 3 years old.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek) -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 7:57 PMI think you would not. Very likely the numbers are further stacked against you. Thanks to Youtube the word has spread far and wide. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 8:00 PMIf you look at the change between the ealiy poll and the polls in 2006 and 2007 the number progessively stack against the OTC because information spreads. Time is not on your side here, rodent. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Fri, November 13, 2009 - 12:15 AMEvidence unfortunately is against yours
By the way, most Americans believe in UFOs. Where's the investigation for that? -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Fri, November 13, 2009 - 2:23 AMDon't forget Bigfoot, Loc Ness Monster, Chubacabra, Ghost Hunters and Jesus on a slice of toast.
Give me Myth Busters over rumor and rhetoric ANY DAY!
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Fri, November 13, 2009 - 8:33 AMA very good point Ron. That's another thing the public would like to see "outed." LOL!
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Fri, November 13, 2009 - 2:29 AMYou STILL haven't answered my questions. Here, I'll simplify it for you...
> there would still be tons and tons of other evidence
Like what? Please be specific.
> because all the main evidence was hauled off.
and the evidence you're speaking of would be what in particular? Please be specific.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek) -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Fri, November 13, 2009 - 8:34 AMYou're kidding right Rodent.? The evidence I give is available in all the threads I've posted here over the past few months. -
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Fri, November 13, 2009 - 9:48 AM> The evidence I give is available in all the threads I've posted here over the past few months.
You mean all of which has been shot down or debunked? You still haven't been specific.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: NIST: WTC7? Office Furniture Fires!
Fri, November 13, 2009 - 10:20 AMVery likely the numbers are further stacked against you.
PROVE IT.
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