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If China is so powerful then America should embargo all Chinese products. Would you not agree?

topic posted Wed, December 7, 2011 - 1:47 AM by  Le Jacquelope
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If China is so great then perhaps they can do without America. We should block all imports from China and see how powerful they are.

If you think China is as powerful as America, then you must agree.
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  • <If China is so great then perhaps they can do without America. We should block all imports from China and see how powerful they are. >

    The problem is less that America buys Chinese goods but more that American companies use cheap Chinese workers to make there goods, keep all the profits from that for 1% of Americans, while the other 99% of Americans can go rot for all the shareholders of the American company care, and the Chinese workers or joint venture company are happy enough with it but not exactly becoming rich out of it either.

    Then there is the even bigger problem that American manufacturing was effectively closed down because the elite - both business elites and government elites, of America thought Financial markets was a better way for Americas elite to make money, and again, fuck the 99% of Americans that didnt help.

    The whole modern economic system is working really badly for ordinary works, not just In America, but in China and Europe too, but instead of changing the system you think your going to solve it all by just puting up national doors on that same system with the same greedy 1 % in charge ? I dont think so.



    • "The whole modern economic system is working really badly for ordinary works, not just In America, but in China and Europe too, but instead of changing the system you think your going to solve it all by just puting up national doors on that same system with the same greedy 1 % in charge ? I dont think so."

      If we block all cheap labor imports the 1% has to hire someone. They'll have to hire Americans.

      BTW you guys say China is more powerful than America - so do you agree, we can shut them out, right?
      • <If we block all cheap labor imports the 1% has to hire someone. They'll have to hire Americans. >

        your global economic thinking is just way too simplistic. Beside the fact that doesn't guarantee good wages if employers use exploitative practices, there are huge problems to your simple economic fix.

        Let me give you just one example, there are I'm sure thousands of others examples like it, but ive got a little experience of this because of a business ive been doing.

        China have over 90% of the worlds Neodymium rare earth production, its used as a vital ingredient for strong magnetic components that are vital for anything from computer hard drives, electric cars, some electric motors, mobile phones, wind turbines, etc.

        Other countries are concerned about China's growing monopoly, the growing importance of these components, and the rapid increase of its price over the last few years because of that (prices have quadrupled) so inevitably there is a huge rush on for investment in large start up mining projects everywhere from the US, Africa (financed by western companies in the main), Indonesia (again with foreign investment) etc. Governments and corporations are pumping billions into new outfits.

        However most industry experts predict it will be about ten years before the world can catch up with China's lead now in cheap production of it.

        So just what do you suggest America does about this essential component if it closes the door on China next week ? There will be many other examples like this. Of course China needs America and Europe just as much as the other way around.

        There has been trade in goods that domestically countries find it hard or impossible to produce themselves since the time of the Egyptians, yet you want us to go back to a pre history village type economies.

        <BTW you guys say China is more powerful than America>

        I really dont think in such simplistic ways, you make it sound like a Rambo movie, who's going to win the big fight.

        Dont get me wrong, i do think America and the EU have to negotiate hard with China, but your thinking is just off the wall.
        • <If you think China is as powerful as America, then you must agree.>

          and that translates to something that is powerful must be a threat to me. Old habits die hard with some Americans, first it was Russia, now China.
          • If we were to block ALL importing of goods from China your 1% wouldn't even have CLOTHES to wear to their crappy little job!
            80% of EVERY ITEM available in this country is "Made In China" and the other 20 percent of goods actually MADE in USA is too expensive for the average American to afford to buy.
            • > If we were to block ALL importing of goods from China your 1% wouldn't even have CLOTHES to wear to their crappy little job!

              Wrong. We would make those clothes here! Do you think cotton is an extinct plant in America? Made in the USA won't be too expensive when more people have JOBS.
              • I suggest reading up on India and their attempts at an isolationist economy. And while I agree our current economic situation is a mess, I'm just not seeing a solution in hiring a bunch of people to make widgets. Better to develop an economy that is actually competitive
                • We had manufacturing like that in the 1800's through the early part of the 19th century where americans made everything from our toaster to our automobile but then american corporations got greedy,became unionised paid the workers like slave labor and when this happens(at least here in america) the quality of those goods went down the toilet a GOOD example of this is American Motors (AMC) when your workers no longer CARE about HOW they turn out your companies product it goes to shit and then the company goes belly-up as AMC did! General Motors almost followed suit,but was mercifully bailed out by a sympathetic american government,unfortunatly,GMC(General Motors) is STILL Pumping out the same old CRAP from their Detroit factories and YES,they WILL fail again,why? because they use substandard parts and churn out substandard vehicles competitively priced with the likes of Honda,Hiundai,Toyota and Nissan who make vehicles at lower price points and are SUPERIOR vehicles.
                  For a "Laundry list" of GM,Ford and Chrysler "Failures" spanning over 40 yrs just go online to consumereports.org and look for yourselves
                  the biggest reason China gets to make just about EVERYTHING that is sold in America is because they build a superior product!
                • " I'm just not seeing a solution in hiring a bunch of people to make widgets. Better to develop an economy that is actually competitive"

                  Making widgets works for China, it'll work for us.

                  When you outsource the making of widgets you eventually also lose the ability to innovate new widgets. Outsourcing destroys your competitive edge and it also ruins your currency.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    "Making widgets works for China, it'll work for us. "

                    it's rather obvious Chinese goods are in high demand, due to basic market forces (cheap labor, lax environmental regulations, etc, etc. ). Trying to artificially recreate that here doesn't strike me as having many long term benefits


                    "When you outsource the making of widgets you eventually also lose the ability to innovate new widgets. Outsourcing destroys your competitive edge and it also ruins your currency."

                    apple is constantly innovating it's products. SO i am unsure what such an idea is based on
                    • "it's rather obvious Chinese goods are in high demand, due to basic market forces (cheap labor, lax environmental regulations, etc, etc. ). Trying to artificially recreate that here doesn't strike me as having many long term benefits "

                      Why not? China did it artificially, by devaluing their currency. What they can do, we can do. Or do you believe in magical fairies that make different rules for China than anyone else?

                      "apple is constantly innovating it's products. SO i am unsure what such an idea is based on"

                      Apple is also competing against the iPed and other knockoffs in the Chinese market. Also China is known for rampant intellectual property theft. Also China is developing cheap R&D departments. Apple's dominance, as a result, is on shaky ground.
                      • "Why not? China did it artificially, by devaluing their currency. What they can do, we can do. Or do you believe in magical fairies that make different rules for China than anyone else? "

                        While there is clear currency manipulation going on in China, they effect it is having on the trade imbalance is often exaggerated. Simple fact is the cost of living there is dirt cheap, there isn't much overhead from environmental protections, and workers rights are rather abysmal. So obviously many things can be made there for rather cheap.


                        "Apple is also competing against the iPed and other knockoffs in the Chinese market. "

                        does this speak to a lack of innovation in apple products, or is this some factoid to hide the fact that you were obviously wrong? Also, as is rather obvious, apple is still doing rather well despite such knock offs


                        "Also China is known for rampant intellectual property theft. Also China is developing cheap R&D departments. Apple's dominance, as a result, is on shaky ground. "

                        Do you actually take the time to think about these things, or do you just literally regurgitate any slightly appealing idea you find on the internet?
                        • "While there is clear currency manipulation going on in China, they effect it is having on the trade imbalance is often exaggerated. Simple fact is the cost of living there is dirt cheap, there isn't much overhead from environmental protections, and workers rights are rather abysmal. So obviously many things can be made there for rather cheap."

                          Chinese wages are approaching the level of American wages.
                          www.zerohedge.com/article/c...-coming-us

                          The currency manipulation thing is becoming even more prominent compared to wage differences. Because wage differences are shrinking.
                          www.google.com/search <------6 Yuan to every 1 Dollar.

                          "does this speak to a lack of innovation in apple products, or is this some factoid to hide the fact that you were obviously wrong? Also, as is rather obvious, apple is still doing rather well despite such knock offs "

                          Hahahahaah! I was waiting for you to say that, LOL.
                          SURPRISE! WikiLeaks cable details Apple's problems with Chinese knockoffs
                          latimesblogs.latimes.com/techn...d.html

                          Chinese authorities find 22 fake Apple stores
                          www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-14503724

                          Care to admit you're wrong now, or do you have more spin doctoring to cover up for your misinformed opinion? LOL.

                          The problem is, China simply steals Apple's innovations practically on Day One and produces knockoffs. Virtually EVERY other industry is plagued with Chinese knockoffs.
                          www.businessinsider.com/amazin...-2011-1

                          My point is, innovation does not even MATTER when you can simply knockoff the product on Day One.

                          "Do you actually take the time to think about these things, or do you just literally regurgitate any slightly appealing idea you find on the internet?"

                          I have provided cites to prove I am right and you are wrong. Do you have counter cites or are you just bluffing now?

                          China and intellectual property theft:
                          www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12...nhardt.html
                          • "Chinese wages are approaching the level of American wages. '

                            so you think these unskilled jobs are going to move back to the US, as opposed to being transferred to some other undervalued labor market, like Bangladesh, or possibly some place in Africa, in the future?


                            "The currency manipulation thing is becoming even more prominent compared to wage differences. Because wage differences are shrinking."

                            you're kind of missing the point: there are numerous things in the US economy that make producing something like plastic spoons rather cost ineffective, not limited to the list I outlined above


                            "Hahahahaah! I was waiting for you to say that, LOL.
                            SURPRISE! WikiLeaks cable details Apple's problems with Chinese knockoffs "

                            lol, no one denied that there weren't knock-offs, but highlighting the fact that apple can still effectively compete with such products still in existence. From the article: <<<Apple has a fraught relationship with China. The nation has become one of the company's largest markets for its products, accounting for billions of dollars in sales in the recent quarter. But China is also known as a global hub of piracy and counterfeiting.>>>

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