Advertisement
Haji Mohammad Suharto has over a fifth of million dead East Timorese on his hands and has never even been tried for his crimes . .
Wait, he was an ally.
Wait, oh yeah, so was Hussein.
Oh, yeah, Suharto didn't have oil.
Nevermind.
Wait, he was an ally.
Wait, oh yeah, so was Hussein.
Oh, yeah, Suharto didn't have oil.
Nevermind.
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 8:57 AMand neither did Rumsfeld or Kissinger. Too bad. -
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 9:19 AMIf we were to dish out death to everyone who ever abused power, there would be no governments. -
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 9:36 AMSometimes "no govermnent" sounds like a good idea.
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sun, December 31, 2006 - 12:39 PM*************f we were to dish out death to everyone who ever abused power, there would be no governments.************
Or internet posters
or people with electrical power
or people who cook their food with fires
or people who have children
or people who - - well people period.
-
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Mon, January 1, 2007 - 10:26 PMBut if we don't dish out death to every dictator who abuses his own people, then this thing with Hussein must have a different explanation, right?
-
-
-
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 9:44 AM -
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 9:47 AMfor the google-challenged, Harmen? -
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 9:54 AMWiki is not so bad...
Not fit enough for trial, reminds me of Pinochet:
"As of 2005-06
On 6 May 2005, Suharto was taken to Pertamina Hospital in Jakarta with intestinal bleeding, believed to be from diverticulosis. The political elite of Indonesia, including President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono and Vice President Jusuf Kalla, visited his bedside. He was released and returned home, May 12, 2005.
On 26 May 2005, the Jakarta Post reported that amid an effort by the government of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono to crack down on corruption, Indonesian Attorney General Abdurrahman Saleh appeared before a Parliamentary commission to discuss efforts to prosecute New Order figures, including Suharto. Attorney General Abdurrahman remarked that he hoped Suharto could recover so that the government could begin inquiries into New Order human rights violations and corruption for purposes of compensation and recovery of state funds, but expressed skepticism that this would be possible. As a result, the Supreme Court of Indonesia has issued a decree making the office of the Attorney General responsible for supervising Suharto's medical care.
On 24 April 2006, Attorney General Abdurrahman announced that a team of twenty doctors would be asked to evaluate Suharto's health and fitness for trial. One physician, Brigadier General Dr Marjo Subiandono, stated his doubts about by noting that "[Suharto] has two permanent cerebral defects."[23] In a later Financial Times report, Attorney General Abdurrahman discussed the re-examination, and called it part of a "last opportunity" to prosecute Suharto criminally. Attorney General Abdurrahman left open the possibility of filing suit against the Suharto estate."[24]
On 4 May 2006, Suharto was again admitted to Pertamina Hospital for intestinal bleeding. His doctors stated further that Suharto was suffering from partial organ failure and in unstable condition.[25]" -
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 9:59 AMI don't link much in tribe. Not because I can't and not because I don't know how to Google, but because it's easy enough for everyone else to do it. If I were reading a post and Suharto was mentioned, I'd just ctrl-T for a new tab, and Google for background. I've found that google-war threads (see the Mumia debacle) complete with copy/pasting hundreds and thousands of words of someone else's text is unproductive and boring.
No offense to our moderator, but I don't read copied in articles, especially when they are substituted as a basis for the start of a thread.
You'll see, in the majority of my threads, that the writing is mine - original. Hell, if y'all want to know what's being said on the Huffington Post you ought to bookmark it yourself. -
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 9:04 PMI post links to back up my points because otherwise, who would take a clown seriously? If I give a statistic, people tell me to prove it with a legitimate link. My links aren't always from Google, either. Most of them are from previous research that I reuse on tribe. Google is just a shortcut to find information. Where's that article on East Timor from 3 years ago? What's the name of the 17th. Karmapa lama again? Stuff like that. I enjoy doing in-depth research and reading the results of other people's research.
I enjoy getting articles here from unusual sources or local news that didn't make the national papers and should have. If it's something I've already read, I skip it and dive into the fray. I appreciate original writing, especially good writing like yours, CVR. I used to write and edit professionally; now I just clown around and do a little research for fun. -
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 10:46 PMThanks Dozo.
I only get annoyed when linking and copy/pasting is used in place of thought and reason.
-
-
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 10:01 AMIdi Amin was one of my favorite american allies, I think he died of comfortable old age in a Saudi hotel suite that was being paid for by your tax dollars.
I used to think it was about oil, but I've never heard or seen of a dictator that our government didn't like as long as they weren't communists. -
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 10:10 AM"Idi Amin was one of my favorite american allies"
But he is dead now, we can not put him on trial..
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idi_Amin
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakwa
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kampala
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 8:34 PM<<Idi Amin was one of my favorite american allies, I think he died of comfortable old age in a Saudi hotel suite that was being paid for by your tax dollars. >>
ha ha, I always thought that Marcos or maybe Doc Duvalier were lovely "allies" . Oh, don't forget Duarte from El Salvador. He was a great "asset" to Washington. -
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 10:37 PM" Oh, don't forget Duarte from El Salvador. "
i remember him, there were protests in the Netherlands against him and also 4 Dutch journalist were killed!
Duarte
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%...B3n_Duarte
This site has some great declassified documents about the murder of the 4 IKON journalist..
forum.archieven.org/index.php
Koos Koster honored on World Press Freedom Day 2003
www.iisg.nl/collections/koster/
-
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 9:10 PMPop Quiz: Which US President, talking about which dictator, said," he may be a bastard, but he's OUR bastard"? -
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sun, December 31, 2006 - 6:21 AMI associate this phrase with Somoza in Nicaragua but as to which President, I would have wrongly guessed LBJ.
Ah, but which Somoza? Seems like there's some debate on the web whether FDR or Truman said it -- either way, it would have been Papa Somoza ( Anastasio Somoza Garcia) who held power from 1934 to 1956, and not the second son ( Anastasio Somoza Debayle), who took power in 1967 and controlled the country in brutal fashion like his dad, until 1979 when the Sandinistas threw him over.
Wikipedia has this to say (at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anas...arc%C3%ADa ):
President Franklin D. Roosevelt supposedly remarked in 1939 that "Somoza may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch." According to historian David Schmitz, however, researchers and archivists who have searched the archives of the Franklin D. Roosevelt Presidential Library have found no evidence that Roosevelt ever made this statement. The statement first appeared in the November 15, 1948 issue of Time magazine and was later mentioned in a March 17, 1960 broadcast of CBS Reports called "Trujillo: Portrait of a Dictator". In this broadcast, however, it was asserted that FDR made the statement in reference to Rafael Trujillo of the Dominican Republic. Thus the statement remains apocryphal at this point, though Roosevelt and future presidents certainly supported the Somoza family and their rule over Nicaragua.
-
-
-
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 4:22 PM<for the google-challenged, Harmen?>
That's Harmen's "job". To show us that there is a wikipedia.
-
-
-
Unsu...
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 10:00 AM>>>>>Oh, yeah, Suharto didn't have oil. <<<<<<
He also wasn't tried by his own people and sentenced to death, as Saddam was. We didn't kill Saddam; the Iraqi government did.
-
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 10:02 AMHow many Sunnis were in that courtroom Mark?
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 10:04 AM. . . . puppet government . . .
you like puppets, don't you? Hell, everyone likes puppets. They do what we want and say what we say . . . so long as the strings don't get tangled. Love those puppets. Poor Saddam, he just wanted to be a real boy.
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 12:11 PM<<He also wasn't tried by his own people and sentenced to death, as Saddam was. We didn't kill Saddam; the Iraqi government did.>>
It was a kangaroo court. How many lawyers were murdered and kidnapped during the trial? As well, the Judge was replaced because the new regime thought he was too nice to the tyrant!
Besides, the US had custody of Saddam right up until it was time to hang. Than they passed him along and according to reports he was hung in the US-Green Zone anyways. Sounds like a formality, but really, who do you think was in charge?
-
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 10:18 AM
Indonesia has oil and is a member of OPEC but their existing fields are now old and rapidly dwindling, and their untapped reserves are still waiting for development monies. Needless to say, Suharto lined his pockets with oil profits.
6 December 1975 [Text of Ford-Kissinger-Suharto Discussion]:
www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB62/
With the U.S. position on the East Timor “business” settled, Suharto turned to economic problems, especially petroleum investments. With the recent bankruptcy of the state oil company, the regime needed more revenue and Suharto wanted to get it from the oil companies that invested in Indonesia. Noting that the oil companies were sharing larger shares of their profits with Middle Eastern states than they were with Indonesia, Suharto told Ford and Kissinger that he wanted to negotiate an "understanding" with them. Both Americans were sympathetic and said that he would have their support. Kissinger, however, noted carefully that whatever Suharto did he should “not create a climate that discourages investment.” The possibility that the East Timor affair could prove to be a disaster for Indonesia and someday impair the “climate for investment” never seems to have occurred to either Kissinger or Ford.
www.allbusiness.com/mining/o...76-1.html
Before Suharto's downfall in 1998, the oil trading companies Perta and Permindo used to have exclusive rights to import crude oils and refined products on behalf of Pertamina. Allegedly, they used to charge hefty commissions above a 35 cents/barrel margin. In 1997, the two companies imported about 200,000 b/d each of crude oils and products.
Perta was 70% controlled by companies linked to Suharto and other top political leaders in his regime, including Suharto's son Hutomo (Tommy) Mandala Putra. Pertamina only held 30% in Perta. Permindo was 65% controlled by another Suharto son Bambang Trihatmodjo, Suharto's cousin Sudwikatmono and close business associate Nirwan Bakrie. The other 35% was held by Pertamina.
Both companies lost their exclusive rights in late May 1998. From July 1, Pertamina took over the oil imports and later introduced an open bidding process in an approach similar to India's IOC. It was said subsequently, that Pertamina offered to take over the controlling shares in Perta and Permindo at prices way below those demanded by Suharto's family and associates.
www.laborrights.org/press/in..._0204.htm
Indonesia Takes a Tortuous Path to Oil
The New York Times - February 19, 2004
By WAYNE ARNOLD
Deep underground near a town called Cepu on the Indonesian island of Java lies more than 600 million barrels of crude oil, $20 billion worth at current prices and enough to increase daily output in that impoverished country by 15 percent.
But Exxon Mobil, which has an exclusive contract to extract the oil at Cepu (pronounced CHEH-poo), will not pump a drop. Since finding much more oil than expected in 2001, Exxon Mobil has been locked in negotiations with Indonesia's national petroleum company, Pertamina, which has demanded that Exxon Mobil share more of the bounty.
So it goes with oil investment in Indonesia, Asia's only member of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries. Indonesia this year assumed the rotating presidency of OPEC, which on Feb. 11 announced production cuts to stabilize prices. Indonesia will not have to cut: it already falls short of its OPEC quotas, and analysts say that falling investment is hastening an end to Indonesia's days as a net oil exporter.
"This is a critical issue for Indonesia," said John G. Phipps, senior director for Indonesian affairs at the U.S.-Asean Business Council in Washington, which led a delegation of American oil executives to Jakarta in January to meet President Megawati Sukarnoputri and members of her cabinet. "They need to move forward and develop their resources."
-
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 10:43 AMYou're right, Mike.
Maybe it's because Suharto didn't threaten to trade Petroleum in Euros (I know, Euros hadn't become a currency then) like Saddam did (and Iran is intending to do).
Suharto was our friend to the end, wasn't he? -
-
Re: Suharto Did Not Hang Last Night
Sat, December 30, 2006 - 6:15 PM
Yep. As per Robin's comment above, Suharto took care of that commie Sukarno and that made him gold in our book, provided he always asked our permission before taking or slaughtering anything that wasn't his and that our corporations might want .
-
-