(somewhat longer version with formatting and links at www.talesfromthe.net/jon/ )
The Hillary Clinton group got overrun with trolls last night. A Facebook bug — that’s been reported and unfixed since February — prevented the admins from being able to react. I saved a snapshot of a series of 25 threads with sexist (and in many cases racist) subjects; I won’t quote them, but trust me, they’re vile. In the middle of this was a plaintive plea for adult behavior by an Obama supporter — with a bunch of responses from trolls. Sigh.
Members of the Clinton group migrated to a private group, always a good thing to do in a situation like this. This morning, the board seems calmer but it’s hard to know whether that’s just a temporary lull. There are aftermath threads like since only the trollzz are here thread and (in the Obama group) The Hillary group has become a trollfest.
Clinton group members, not unreasonably, see Obama supporters as responsible for this: there’s been a lot of gloating and taunting in the last week, and several Obama supporters have been banned from the Clinton group for trolling over the last few months. On the other hand, the Obama group was also getting trolled last night, as discussed in What’s with all the hostility tonight and What has gotten into some of you people? The garbage in the Clinton groups is similar in a lot of ways the trolling/hate speech we’ve gotten on the Obama boards; I see some familiar names (”Ian Hussein Wright”) and posting styles (brief all-caps hate speech, typical of “Munya Smith” and “Piper Lee” under their various aliases). As I said in my apology in the Clinton group
"to be clear, i am not saying that to disclaim responsibility; but please, don’t give these racist and sexist trolls a further victory by adding to the tensions between Clinton and Obama supporters."
There are some major questions about Facebook’s role here. At a minimum, failing to fix the bug hampering a political activism group for three key months during the primary season is very irresponsible. And especially given Facebook founder Chris Hughes’ role with my.barackobama.com, since the much-larger Obama group wasn’t suffering from this bug it certainly gives the appearance of anti-Clinton bias. In Facebook’s “defense”, I should point out that many of the Obama supporters who were censored by Facebook in February and March brought up accusations of anti-Obama bias. Then again, a couple of months ago Facebook did tell one of the Obama group members that they were going to introduce a mechanism to ban an IP address, not just a profile, from a group in response to our requests for help dealing with repeated trolls. If they actually did implement this while ignoring the Clinton requests, it raises some troubling questions — about their software engineering process, and possibly more deeply.
Hopefully this incident will get the attention it deserves in the press and blogosphere and we’ll start to have some serious discussions about questions like this … and the general problem of trolls and hate speech online. I don’t know about everybody else, but I’m sick of trolls and haters disrupting online conversations and shattering groups. I think it’s long past time we start doing something about it.
The Hillary Clinton group got overrun with trolls last night. A Facebook bug — that’s been reported and unfixed since February — prevented the admins from being able to react. I saved a snapshot of a series of 25 threads with sexist (and in many cases racist) subjects; I won’t quote them, but trust me, they’re vile. In the middle of this was a plaintive plea for adult behavior by an Obama supporter — with a bunch of responses from trolls. Sigh.
Members of the Clinton group migrated to a private group, always a good thing to do in a situation like this. This morning, the board seems calmer but it’s hard to know whether that’s just a temporary lull. There are aftermath threads like since only the trollzz are here thread and (in the Obama group) The Hillary group has become a trollfest.
Clinton group members, not unreasonably, see Obama supporters as responsible for this: there’s been a lot of gloating and taunting in the last week, and several Obama supporters have been banned from the Clinton group for trolling over the last few months. On the other hand, the Obama group was also getting trolled last night, as discussed in What’s with all the hostility tonight and What has gotten into some of you people? The garbage in the Clinton groups is similar in a lot of ways the trolling/hate speech we’ve gotten on the Obama boards; I see some familiar names (”Ian Hussein Wright”) and posting styles (brief all-caps hate speech, typical of “Munya Smith” and “Piper Lee” under their various aliases). As I said in my apology in the Clinton group
"to be clear, i am not saying that to disclaim responsibility; but please, don’t give these racist and sexist trolls a further victory by adding to the tensions between Clinton and Obama supporters."
There are some major questions about Facebook’s role here. At a minimum, failing to fix the bug hampering a political activism group for three key months during the primary season is very irresponsible. And especially given Facebook founder Chris Hughes’ role with my.barackobama.com, since the much-larger Obama group wasn’t suffering from this bug it certainly gives the appearance of anti-Clinton bias. In Facebook’s “defense”, I should point out that many of the Obama supporters who were censored by Facebook in February and March brought up accusations of anti-Obama bias. Then again, a couple of months ago Facebook did tell one of the Obama group members that they were going to introduce a mechanism to ban an IP address, not just a profile, from a group in response to our requests for help dealing with repeated trolls. If they actually did implement this while ignoring the Clinton requests, it raises some troubling questions — about their software engineering process, and possibly more deeply.
Hopefully this incident will get the attention it deserves in the press and blogosphere and we’ll start to have some serious discussions about questions like this … and the general problem of trolls and hate speech online. I don’t know about everybody else, but I’m sick of trolls and haters disrupting online conversations and shattering groups. I think it’s long past time we start doing something about it.
-
Re: Hillary Clinton Facebook group overrun by trolls
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 4:31 PMgrrr. . .this is dismaying. . .
-
Re: Hillary Clinton Facebook group overrun by trolls
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 4:45 PMAre you talking about some form of systematic enforcement?
-
Re: Hillary Clinton Facebook group overrun by trolls
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 4:55 PMor do you mean organizing the community, in such away, that prevents trolls from reaching their goals? -
-
Re: Hillary Clinton Facebook group overrun by trolls
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 5:00 PMmore the latter. i do think that sites and groups should enforce their policies, so if hate speech is banned they should delete posts and ban users -- or change the rules and make it clear that it's a hate-speech friendly zone. still that's only one piece of it.
actually i think a good start is just pooling knowledge and getting an understanding of what techniques do and don't work in what situations. for example, it's good to have a backup email channel for situations like this where there's an emergency; and it's good to have a private group to plan counter-attacks, etc.
there's an early start at a page at cfp.wikia.com/wiki/Social...h_and_trolls -
-
Re: Hillary Clinton Facebook group overrun by trolls
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 2:56 AMTrying to control what topics people are allowed to communicate about is wrong.
It's a bad person that sees this as a worthy goal. It's a foolish person who sees it as attainable. -
-
Re: Hillary Clinton Facebook group overrun by trolls
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 7:25 AMif somebody wrote graffitti with insults and offensive comments on all the inside and outside walls of where you live, would you have the same response? -
-
Re: Hillary Clinton Facebook group overrun by trolls
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 8:55 AMWhere I *live*?
Do you really think that's an even slightly justifiable comparison? Please elaborate on how this comparison is pertinent.
It validates the views of the site's problematic detractors, and accomplishes their goals in a nicely pat way, when their tossed-off blips and grunts are met with fearful suppression. They can then wave a hand to the undecided and say, "see? Why else would they censor us so stringently if what we were saying wasn't a direct challenge to their elitist power" and so forth.
The reason people believe there is no racism at work in USA's culture is that racist commentary is completely suppressed - often by racists themselves. Tabu on words accomplishes only the empowerment of those words. CF the observation that Clinton may actually enjoy the support of far more American dem voters despite the fact that her bases doesn't blog, forum-troll, nor participate in chain emails. Even if untrue - how would you know? The static drowns the signal, and the signal is misconstrued as static.
If you can't stomach public opinion, seek no congress in public fora. Mark the political boards as "private - supporters only" and accept that as a criterion that you, personally, require to engage in political discussions. Don't give in to the temptation to juxtapose yourself with tormentors by engaging in an exact duplication of their behavior. If your message is superior, it will automatically drown stupid opposition. If you're worried that your message is lost to trolling, then your message is weak, and will not last no matter how important or progressive it might be. You *will* face worse than trolling in this world; displaying weakness by seeking protection in some notion of decorum, appeal to ethics, &c is deluded. In case you hadn't noticed, our nation is dense with lazy stupid bullies and the reason for this is that the behavior has succeeded in utterly enervating even the tiniest efforts by educated, "civilized" people (you know: "the elite") to introduce rationality to public discourse.
Be strong. Make space for all the voices. When a message has to be deleted, own that shit: advertise it. "We delete the fuck out of stupid-ass comments, but we had to save this one and re-post it in its own thread for you because it's so goddamn precious:" &c. &c..
Hmm. You may tell any flustered Hillary / Obama mods I will charge them a very reasonable rate to deal with their little troll problem. Hint: they like it when you get upset and do things like restrict comment, ignore democratic principles, oppress certain viewpoints while lauding others. -
-
Re: Hillary Clinton Facebook group overrun by trolls
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 7:49 AMyou didn't answer my question.
to be clear about why i asked: it sounds to me like you're saying that the people who are upset about having a space they care about invaded and defaced should just deal with it.
i was wondering whether you'd have the same reaction if it was a space you cared about.
> When a message has to be deleted, own that shit
i agree. if you reread my post, the problem in this situation is that the group's moderators weren't able to delete messages; essentially, they were unarmed against the trolls. do you really think it's okay that Facebook didn't do anything about this for three months?
> Hmm. You may tell any flustered Hillary / Obama mods I will charge them a very reasonable rate to deal with their little troll problem.
So that they can make a better decision about whether you'd be good at it -- or the proper rate -- would you describe your role in dealing with the troll problem in *this* forum?
-
-
Re: Hillary Clinton Facebook group overrun by trolls
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 10:46 AM<< The reason people believe there is no racism at work in USA's culture is that racist commentary is completely suppressed >>
No, the reason people believe there is no racism in America is because they're simply too weak-willed and chickenshit to deal with an open, obvious, suppurating social ill. Poverty and homelessness gets the same cowardly shift.
<< our nation is dense with lazy stupid bullies and the reason for this is that the behavior has succeeded in utterly enervating even the tiniest efforts by educated, "civilized" people (you know: "the elite") to introduce rationality to public discourse. >>
I advocate handling them in the immemorial manner of dealing with bullies- making bullying cost them something. Any bully is a coward.
<< If your message is superior, it will automatically drown stupid opposition. >>
True. Faith in this is *not* misplaced.
<< do you really think it's okay that Facebook didn't do anything about this for three months? >>
This tells us the limitations of Facebook. There are many.
-
-
-
-
-
-