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One of the funnier moments of 911 TV - Tucker Carlson jumping through hoops to keep the footage of the WTC 7 collapse from airing during the Professor Jones interview on Fox. Who is your daddy, Tucker?
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 8:30 PMFunny, there still haven't been any demolition experts or structural engineers who agree with the WTC 7 conspiracy.
Funny that.
Funny the entire fire department knew that the building was going to collapse and why,structural damage by debris collision from WTC 1 and massive uncontrolled fires.
Funny that.
Funny there were no explosions in any way consistent with demolition charges.
Funny that.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek) -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 6:00 AMFunny how Fox has dodged showing the WTC 7 demolition on TV. Funny that. Wonder why? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 6:16 AMpull my finger -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 7:04 AMBecause that picture is worth a thousand words, they don't dare show it. It is a "money shot."
The real "evidence" of 911 having been a piece of stagecraft is the behavior of people engaged in covering up. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 7:46 AM<<<The real "evidence" of 911 having been a piece of stagecraft is the behavior of people engaged in covering up.>>>
Your interpretation of how people act after the fact is your real 'evidence'. Boy I'm convinced. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 7:54 AMExactly. You're beginning to get it. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 10:01 AMsolari read that top secret conspiracy document by pnac yet?
It's still available on their website. Sure hope no one catches on
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 9:48 AM<<Because that picture is worth a thousand words, they don't dare show it. It is a "money shot."
The real "evidence" of 911 having been a piece of stagecraft is the behavior of people engaged in covering up.
None of it matters, there are fire fighters LIVE on the scene indicating that WTC 7 was structurally compromised and on the verge of collapse. They pulled all the fire fighters out of WTC 7 as a result and saved lives that day. Fire figthers are strained experts in structural safety, it is a necessity for their job, and their live testimony is unimpachable. www.youtube.com/watch
This is confirmed by a multitude of fire fighter testimony, here are just a few. www.nytimes.com/packages/h...TC_GRAPHIC/
Banaciski_Richard.txt www.nytimes.com/packages/h...TC_GRAPHIC/
Nigro_Daniel.txt www.nytimes.com/packages/h...WTC_GRAPHIC
/Cruthers.txt
In addition, there is nothing incriminating about the collapse video...... unless you think that gravity was in on 9-11 as well. You see, the earth pulls all things towards its center. In addition, WTC 7 did not collapse neatly in to its own footprint as you and others claim. This picture clearly shows that it was a bloody mess, and in reality collapsed across the road toward the left of this picture. www.truthmove.org/workspace...c7pile.jpg -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 10:48 AM
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 10:22 AMTake note that Solari is once again ignoring the structural safety experts that were LIVE on the scene, firefighters indicating that WTC 7 was damaged and on the verge of collapse.
Solari also ignored the picture I posted that demonstrates that WTC 7 was not like a controlled demolition, the building in reality collapsed across the road on one side. A video from one side of the building does not demonstrate that the building collapsed in to its own footprint, only an aerial view after the collapse can show an accurate picture, and that picture demonstrates that the "footprint" claim is completely bogus. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 10:47 AMHere, I will post the picture for you again Solari, this clearly shows even after some cleanup that WTC 7 did not collapse in to its own footprint.
www.truthmove.org/workspace...c7pile.jpg
In addition, with the raging fire it would have been impossible to set charges being that the heat from the fire would have detonated the charges. How would it be possible for charges to avoid detonation with this raging diesel fire? www.sharpprintinginc.com/911_o...h7.jpg
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 9:49 AMSo, lets review what we know for SURE.
1) Fireman saying there was "a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors." "I would say it was probably about a third of it".
2) A laymen officer the fireman was standing next to said, "that building doesn’t look straight." He then says "It didn’t look right".
3) They put a transit on it and afterward were "pretty sure she was going to collapse."
4) They "saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13".
5) Photographic evidence of a fire directly under the penthouse which collapsed first.
6) The penthouse fell first, followed by the rest of the building shortly after.
7) The collapse happened from the bottom.
8) Photographic evidence of large smoke plumes against the back of B7. Plumes of smoke so large you can't see the entire rear of the 47 story office building.
9) Silverstein is not a demolition expert and was talking to a fire fighter and not a demolition expert. Why would he use the word "Pull" to describe the demolition to a fire fighter?
10) Silverstein denies "Pull" means "Controlled demolition". He said it means "Pull" the teams out of the building.
11) Silverstein did not make the decision to "Pull". (Whatever that means) "they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse"
12) Another fire fighter used "Pull" to describe the decision made to get him out of the building.
What we don't have...
1) Clear view of the large hole
2) Number of columns and location of columns taken out by the tower impact
3) Clear view of all the fires seen on the south side
4) Any sign of an actual explosive.
Maybe none of these things by themselves mean anything but together it means there is no case. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 10:38 AM> 4) Any sign of an actual explosive.
I will point out that explosions were heard before WTC 7 collapsed but are easily attributed to overheated power transformers.
Just for clarification, that line should read "Any sign of DEMOLITION EXPLOSIVES"
Go look up any, ANY video of a building actually being demolished. The sound alone is distinctive and unmistakable.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 10:39 AMsolari read that top secret conspiracy document by pnac yet?
It's still available on their website. Sure hope no one catches on
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
really, go get it and copy paste it for us..........cause on my computer they pulled it down.... -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 10:42 AMno it wasn't your computer. It's been there all along.
www.newamericancentury.org/defe...y.htm
www.newamericancentury.org/Rebu...s.pdf
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 10:50 AMThe WTC 7 collapse footage rarely gets played on mainstream TV in America because it looks so blatantly like a controlled demolition. Carlson's hilarious evasions speak reams about the lengths to which corporate owned news media goes to suppress 911 investigation.
I have been unable to find instances of it aside from the footage shown in the actual day of 911. If anyone can find some, please give me the links. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 10:52 AMobviously the media is part of the conspiracy too Solari.
Millions of people are all getting a fat royalty check from Dick Cheney. Myself included of course
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 12:22 PM<<The WTC 7 collapse footage rarely gets played on mainstream TV in America because it looks so blatantly like a controlled demolition.
Yeah, how could gravity actually pull objects toward the center of the earth? How the hell did the building collapse toward the ground rather than the sky?
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 3:07 AM'The WTC 7 collapse footage rarely gets played on mainstream TV in America because it looks so blatantly like a controlled demolition.'
"Looks so blatantly like" according to what? Your expertise is ascertaining the difference between a controlled demolition collapse versus other collapses?
Concluding that WTC7 was taken down by controlled demolitions based on the assessments of amateurs of what "looks" like a controlled demolition makes as much sense as concluding that buildings demolished by tornadoes were really destroyed by runaway trains since people often report the sound of a tornado to be like a train. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 9:38 AM> Concluding that WTC7 was taken down by controlled demolitions based on the assessments of amateurs of what "looks" like a controlled demolition makes as much sense as concluding that buildings demolished by tornadoes were really destroyed by runaway trains since people often report the sound of a tornado to be like a train.
I am SO stealing this analogy.
Bravo!
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 3:02 AMRight. Video of a buildin's collapse is impenetrabl;e eviodence of a controlled demolition to people who don't know anything about controlled demolitions.
So tell me, what other controlled demolition was allowed to burn for hours before the explosives were detonated, and didn't have the very audible telltale rat a tat tat of a series of explosives going off that are typical of controlled demolitions, or had one part of the building collapse before other parts of the building, contrary to the "symmetrical collapse" myth? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 9:44 AMThey will never answer a direct question such as this with a direct answer.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 2:58 AM"Wonder why? "
Because they don't waste their time with stupid, whackjob theories that barely anyone of importance supports?
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 10:59 AM"Funny, there still haven't been any demolition experts or structural engineers who agree with the WTC 7 conspiracy. "
That is two lies in one sentence..
29 Structural & Civil Engineers Cite Evidence for Controlled Demolition in Collapses of All 3 WTC High-Rises on 9/11
— Gregg Roberts and AE911Truth Staff
Jun 30, 2009
More than 700 architects and engineers have joined call for new investigation, faulting official collapse reports
The facts are in. The evidence is conclusive. These experts lay it all out.
For Some, the Doubts Began Early
"Something is wrong with this picture," thought Nathan Lomba, as he watched replays of the Twin Tower collapses on television on September 11, 2001. A licensed structural engineer trained in buildings' responses to stress, Lomba saw more on the screen than you or I. He puzzled, "How did the structures collapse in near-symmetrical fashion when the damage was clearly not symmetrical?"
www.ae911truth.org/info/64
Read entire article (pdf)
www.ae911truth.org/download...06-17.pdf
Here is the top demolition expert from Europe.
Danny Jowenko on WTC 7 controlled demolition
www.youtube.com/watch -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 11:29 AMAnd yet, there are no explosions in any way consistent with explosive demolition. None, zero, zilch.
This is the flaw in the truthers argument.
If there were explosions, every firefighter on the ground would have heard it. You would have heard it blocks away. Firefighters knew the building was going to collapse by the extent of the damage from falling debris, the intensity of fires and observable deterioration of the building.
www.debunking911.com/pull.htm
""A little north of Vesey I said, we’ll go down, let’s see what’s going on. A couple of the other officers and I were going to see what was going on. We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what’s going on. So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good
But they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini, we’re going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see.."
"but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse."
911guide.googlepages.com/danielnigro
"Regarding WTC 7: The long-awaited US Government NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) report on the collapse of WTC 7 is due to be published at the end of this year (although it has been delayed already a few times [ adding fuel to the conspiracy theorists fires!]). That report should explain the cause and mechanics of the collapse in great detail. Early on the afternoon of September 11th 2001, following the collapse of WTC 1 & 2, I feared a collapse of WTC 7 (as did many on my staff).
The reasons are as follows:
1 - Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and from fire will collapse.
2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors of WTC 7.
3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.
4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without sufficient water supply to attack them.
For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7 collapsed.
Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit.
Regards, Dan Nigro
Chief of Department FDNY (retired)"
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 11:33 AMAnd yet, there are no explosions in any way consistent with explosive demolition. None, zero, zilch.
This is the flaw in the truthers argument.
If there were explosions, every firefighter on the ground would have heard it. You would have heard it blocks away. Firefighters knew the building was going to collapse by the extent of the damage from falling debris, the intensity of fires and observable deterioration of the building.
www.debunking911.com/pull.htm
""A little north of Vesey I said, we’ll go down, let’s see what’s going on. A couple of the other officers and I were going to see what was going on. We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what’s going on. So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good
But they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini, we’re going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see.."
"but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse."
911guide.googlepages.com/danielnigro
"Regarding WTC 7: The long-awaited US Government NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) report on the collapse of WTC 7 is due to be published at the end of this year (although it has been delayed already a few times [ adding fuel to the conspiracy theorists fires!]). That report should explain the cause and mechanics of the collapse in great detail. Early on the afternoon of September 11th 2001, following the collapse of WTC 1 & 2, I feared a collapse of WTC 7 (as did many on my staff).
The reasons are as follows:
1 - Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and from fire will collapse.
2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors of WTC 7.
3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.
4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without sufficient water supply to attack them.
For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7 collapsed.
Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit.
Regards, Dan Nigro
Chief of Department FDNY (retired)"
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 12:49 PMDanny Jowenko is quoted as saying "You need experienced people. But if you had thirty or forty men..."
Doncha think the firecrews would have NOTICED 30 or 40 guy's running in and out of WTC 7?
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rodent (putting the eek in geek) -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 1:02 PMNot to mention that the diesel fire would have detonated any charges.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 1:18 PMRodent,
Are you going to apologize for openly lying?
You can't just step over that and change subject..
I am still waiting for an apology from Jeff for lying too..
He claimed that nano thermite did not exist while it is on wikipedia..
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano-thermite
You guys have no credibility left.. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 1:56 PMHarmen, rather than actually discussing the details, you are diverting by using the word lie as a debate bludgeoning tool. Your first mistake is that you have not demonstrated that anybody lied as opposed to being mistaken. Secondly, Wikipedia does not indicate WHEN nano-thermite came in to existence. In the previous discussion I used one of your sides links that supposedly demonstrated that nano-thermite existed in 2001. But what I found is that the article in reality indicated that nano-thermite was in the INITIAL STUDY stages and had not yet made it past the lab stage, something I believe that you ignored. Why?
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 2:08 PMOK Harmen, I looked back out our previous conversation. In response to my challenge to prove that nano-thermite existed in 2001 (beyond Steven Jones claims), you cherry picked from an article on the subject leaving out the key bit of information. You can refresh your memory here.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
uspolitics.tribe.net/thread/...94a455bc
Harmen, you are cherry picking the article, you left out the key paragraph.
"Right now, making energetic materials using the sol-gel technique is in the basic research stage, but results look promising. "Many compositions depend on a simple, inexpensive procedure that we can basically do in an ordinary chemistry beaker," says Tillotson. He notes that the practical advantages of these materials are encouraging. Some of the pluses are less sensitivity, safe mixing, low-temperature synthesis, safe handling, safe processing, and homogeneity leading to better performance.
"We've just begun to explore the possibilities for these new materials and the methodologies that produced them," adds Simpson. "This approach is like a new baby—it has lots of potential. The ramifications are still largely unknown."
—Ann Parker
BASIC RESEARCH STAGE. JUST BEGUN TO EXOLORE THE POSSIBILITIES.
___________________________________________________________________
Now tell me Harmen, why did you cherry pick the article? Did you just skim it and subsequently miss this key piece of information? Or were you purposefully being dishonest? Did you lie or were you mistaken? An honest debate would leave open the possiblity that you were mistaken. Why would you not leave that option open for others you are debating? Nowhere have you demonstrated that I lied, but I could make a case that you lied.
Now, will you directly address the fact that you cherry picked the article? Or will you ignore it just like you did last time? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 3:39 PM<<You guys have no credibility left..
First you make a claim, then post a study that supposedly confirms your claim, then demand an apology for my lying. Upon closer inspection of the study we find that it does not demonstrate your claim, quite the contrary, it demonstrates that Nano-thermite was only in the basic research stage. I pointed this out, you failed to respond.......and then weeks later you come back and demand an apology yet again...... an apology that is still based on you cherry picking the study....which of course is a form of dishonesty. In other words, it is your credibility that is on the line here...... and your silence speaks volumes. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, October 22, 2009 - 11:41 AMNow I predict that Harmen will ignore this simple fact, then come back a few months later demanding an apology for the same thing. Seriously Harmen, where are you now? Why ARE you ignoring what I just demonstrated? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, October 22, 2009 - 12:28 PMI think he's wondering what those big words are that we were using.
Otherwise, he's off to console with people who reinforce his delusions instead of actually researching the subject.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 9:52 AMI repeat:
<<You guys have no credibility left..
First you make a claim, then post a study that supposedly confirms your claim, then demand an apology for my lying. Upon closer inspection of the study we find that it does not demonstrate your claim, quite the contrary, it demonstrates that Nano-thermite was only in the basic research stage. I pointed this out, you failed to respond.......and then weeks later you come back and demand an apology yet again...... an apology that is still based on you cherry picking the study....which of course is a form of dishonesty. In other words, it is your credibility that is on the line here...... and your silence speaks volumes. >>
So tell me Harmen, what part of "Basic Research Stage" don't you understand? Why did you leave that part out? Certainly one could make the case that I was mistaken with my statement about nano-thermite not existing (of course you jump straight to "liar"). But what is true is that Nano-thermite in ANY operational or useable sense did not exist in 2001. Your own article indicates it was in a basic research stage. And by the way, Wikipedia can be edited by anybody, so using that as "proof" is a bit dubious at best.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 2:22 PM
> Are you going to apologize for openly lying?
Nope. Because I did not lie. I made a statement that was truthful to the best of my knowledge at the time. YOU have yet to prove anything. The petition only states "We believe there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened" "the possible use of explosives" "hat might have been the actual cause".
"doubt", "possible", "might". Nowhere does it say We the undersigned believe that the WTC 1, 2, 7 were collapsed by explosive demolition.
So, no, I have not lied and will not apologize.
Will you apologize to the thousands innocent men and women who died that day because your assertions are highly offensive to their memory, sacrifice and families.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek) -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 2:53 PMTucker Carlson is the one owing apologies - he and his superiors who gave him the order to keep that collapse footage off the air no matter what. This trail leads back to his handlers, and his handlers lead back to the perps. Traitors all. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 2:59 PMI think Tucker should apologize for not playing the video of the firefighter LIVE on the scene indicating that WTC 7 was structurally compromised and on the verge of collapse, how DARE he suppress this information!
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 3:31 PM>Tucker Carlson is the one owing apologies - he and his superiors who gave him the order to keep that collapse footage off the air no matter what. This trail leads back to his handlers, and his handlers lead back to the perps. Traitors all.
Riiiiight. And he should apologize for not showing bigfoot footage, aliens on the Mars Rovers and flat earth footage too??
You have no evidence. If you had any evidence it would be proof of treason and you could bring it to court. Anyone surprised that there has been no lawsuit?
fools.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 3:40 PM<<he and his superiors who gave him the order to keep that collapse footage off the air no matter what. This trail leads back to his handlers, and his handlers lead back to the perps.
Your so called trail leading to the network does not exist, you made it up. Why do you continue to present assumption and conjecture as fact, even in the wake of admitting that you lied? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, October 22, 2009 - 1:04 PMJeff,
You posted this statement in the previous thread.
"How come you have not responded to the fact that nano thermite has never been demonstrated to exist "
On several occasions you made this false claim Jeff,
I have shown you that is an outright lie as anybody can check on wikipedia or by one google search..
I have even proved that nano thermite was known in the open source environment long before 11 september 2001 with an scientific article and a photo from May 2000...
Yet..
You did not apoligize for lying or even retract that statement..
Then you go into dodging mode where you accuse me of cherry picking..
All i had to proof was that nano thermite does exist..
I did better than that...I proved it existed long before 911..
Your accusations of cherry picking they cut no wood..I posted the entire article..
Like i said
You lost your credibility with me, so i am not going to waste more time on you..
You do not play fair..
bye
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, October 22, 2009 - 1:13 PMBtw
According to Kevin Ryan NIST and the Lawrence Livermore National laboratory were already testing this material in 1999...
The Top Ten Connections Between
NIST and Nano-Thermites
KEVIN R. RYAN
July 2, 2008
"Was the steel tested for explosives or thermite residues? . . . NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel." -- NIST Responses to FAQs, August 2006
The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has had considerable difficulty determining a politically correct sequence of events for the unprecedented destruction of three World Trade Center (WTC) buildings on 9/11 (Douglas 2006, Ryan 2006, Gourley 2007). But despite a number of variations in NIST’s story, it never considered explosives or pyrotechnic materials in any of its hypotheses. This omission is at odds with several other striking facts; first, the requirement of the national standard for fire investigation (NFPA 921), which calls for testing related to thermite and other pyrotechnics, and second, the extensive experience NIST investigators have with explosive and thermite materials.
.......................
"NIST was working with LLNL to test and characterize these sol-gel nano-thermites, at least as early as 1999 (Tillitson et al 1999)."
911review.com/articles/ry...nection.html -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, October 22, 2009 - 2:41 PMFirst of all I find it funny that you are using a site promoting 9-11 conspiracy theories as proof that NIST were testing thermite in 99. The article gives one quote from NIST, and that quote speaks of Sol-Gel, not Sol-Gel thermite. Sol-Gel is a process used with many differing materials.
"“The sol-gel process is very amenable to dip-, spin-, and spray-coating technologies to coat surfaces. We have utilized this property to dip-coat various substrates to make sol-gel Fe,O,/ Al / Viton coatings. The energetic coating dries to give a nice adherent film. Preliminary experiments indicate that films of the hybrid material are self-propagating when ignited by thermal stimulus”
Show me the actual information from NIST, show me something that is not an isolated quote that speaks of sol-gel nano-thermite specifically. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, October 22, 2009 - 2:55 PMAs a matter of fact, you should go further and demonstrate where nano-thermite has ever been applied and actually used. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, October 22, 2009 - 4:50 PMThe reason I say this is because certainly we have pictures of Iron Oxide and aluminum that was combined in a sol-gel. But has anyone demonstrated that it either burns or explodes? I don't see where that has ever even been tried, even in the laboratory basic research stage.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, October 22, 2009 - 2:35 PM<<You posted this statement in the previous thread.
"How come you have not responded to the fact that nano thermite has never been demonstrated to exist "
On several occasions you made this false claim Jeff,>>
And yet you still jump straight to "Liar" as opposed to 'mistaken'. Why?
In addition, your cherry picking job was in direct response to when I wrote the following
Jeff: “You have yet to show me a scientific study independent of Steven Jones demonstrating this is possible or that nano-thermite even existed in 2001 as Steven Jones claims". The larger discussion of course being that implication that nano-thermite was at a stage that it could have been used on 9-11. The article you posted indicates that it was in the basic research stage, let alone being a component that has ever or could ever demolish a building.
And by the way, Steven Jones words do not = fact being that he is a known liar.
<<Then you go into dodging mode where you accuse me of cherry picking..
It is obvious you cherry picked being that you left out the key compenent, ie BASIC RESEARCH STAGE. Why did you leave that out? Because it destroys your argument that nano-thermite was at a stage of development where it could be used to demolish a building. As a matter of fact, that still has never been demonstrated, not once.
<<Then you go into dodging mode where you accuse me of cherry picking..
Wrong, for your assertions to be taken seriously you would have to demonstrate that nano-thermite existed beyond the basic research stage and could have been used on 9-11 to demolish a building. You helped me to demonstrate the opposite, that nano-thermite was in a BASIC RESEARCH stage.
<<Your accusations of cherry picking they cut no wood..I posted the entire article..
No, you did not. You left out the BASIC RESEARCH stage information. This is called cherry picking.
<<You lost your credibility with me, so i am not going to waste more time on you..
You do not play fair..
Why are you so afraid of the idea that YOUR article demonstrated that it was in its BASIC RESEARCH STAGE? This IS a fair and logical question, regardless of your fake cries of "no fair". I find it hypocritical that you are crying "no fair" considering that you jumped straight to "liar" without ever considering "mistaken", or even questioning your sources (like Steven Jones who is a demonstrated liar). How dare you lecture me about "fair" after engaging in that shitty debate tactic.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 10:00 AM<<All i had to proof was that nano thermite does exist..
Wrong, for your theory to hold water you would have to demonstrate that nano-thermite existed in an OPERATIONAL sense to of been used on 9-11. The study you used as proof of the existence of nano-thermite indicates it was in the BASIC RESEARCH STAGE. Can you show me where anyone has ever ignited nano-thermite? Can you show me where anyone has used nano-thermite to burn through steel? Can you show me where anyone has ever used nano-thermite as an explosive? In or out of the lab in 2001? Or how about even today? Give ,me something beyond wikipedia and beyond Steven Jones claims (he is not a scientist with relevent training or experience).
Also, you still have not answered why you left the part of the study out that indicated it was in the basic research stage. Please address this directly instead of dodging.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 3:49 PMHarmen, where is my apology? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 8:22 PMLet's understand one simple thing. The people who employ Mr. Carlson told him to keep the collapse footage of WTC 7 off the air. Their motive is simple also. The footage is so incriminating that the fewer people who see it the better is the chance of keeping a lid on the inside op. It is real simple. His handlers were afraid as they well should be. The op is busted and eventually the mass murderers will be brought to justice. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 8:57 PM> The footage is so incriminating
No it's not. It does not show the characteristic booms of an explosive demolition, not squib blasts consistent with explosive demolition, does not show the 20 story gash in the side that extended almost one quarter of the way THROUGH the building, did not show the extent of the fires within the building, did not show the bulge indicating eminent structural failure and is probably was edited to remove the penthouse collapsing before the whole building fell.
> The op is busted
No it wasn't. You do not have conclusive evidence, you only have innuendo at best. Who's lieing now?
> and eventually the mass murderers will be brought to justice.
Hopefully this will be true. I just wish we had continued to concentrate in Afghanistan for them rather than getting diverted into Iraq.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 9:20 PMHere is a real building demolition. See if you can spot the differences.
www.break.com/usercontent...-587776.html
Here's another one www.youtube.com/watch
and another one video.google.com/videoplay
and another one video.google.com/videoplay
and another one video.google.com/videoplay
notice a pattern?
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 9:21 PMYeah it is. That's why you don't see it on mainstream television, and that is why Carlson was tasked by his handlers to keep that footage off of the boob tube. And that is why NIST spent 7 years fumbling around for an explanation of collapse which turned out to be a ludicrous explanation. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 9:30 PM> hat is why Carlson was tasked by his handlers to keep that footage off of the boob tube.
and what evidence do you have for this beyond your own speculation?
> And that is why NIST spent 7 years fumbling around for an explanation of collapse which turned out to be a ludicrous explanation.
and what was the "ludicrous explanation"?
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rodent (putting the eek in geek) -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 7:29 AMWe're gonna get these guys. I can almost taste it now. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 9:48 AMSolari, you are avoiding Rodent's question. "and what evidence do you have for this beyond your own speculation?" Why are you avoiding this simple and logical question? You are presenting something as fact and yet are unable to demonstrate how you know it to be fact. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 11:16 AMYou guys than play the "evidence" gam all you want. It is an endless loop going nowhere because the real evidence was hauled off an melted down, and you know it. We have evidence enough that these traitors did all they could to cover up and evade. Grounds for reopening the investigation. That's when the real "evidence" will ome forward as whistleblowers.
Now, what is it we do with traitors? -
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Solari - 911 Truthers Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 11:21 AMYes all the evidence has been spirited away so we'll just have to trust the word of those making a living off of 911 conspiracies to show us the truth. -
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Re: Solari - 911 Truthers Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 11:23 AMoh, that's rich.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 11:50 AM<<You guys than play the "evidence" gam all you want.
In reality we are countering the so-called evidence you and your side has put forth. You take it very seriously when you are presenting evidence, but then when a rebuttal is put forth that you are unable to respond to, you indicate it is a game.
<<It is an endless loop going nowhere because the real evidence was hauled off an melted down, and you know it.
This is a copout Solari. Your side claims WTC 7 collapsed in to its own footprint, aerial photographs indicate otherwise. This IS real evidence.
Fire fighters who are experts in structural safety were LIVE on the scene indicating that the building was on the verge of collapse. Not sure how you can get any better than an expert LIVE on the scene. This IS real evidence.
<<That's when the real "evidence" will ome forward as whistleblowers.
I see, any evidence that is contrary to your pre-existing belief is not real, but evidence brought forward that supports your preexisting belief is "real evidence". This demonstrates that your goal is not the truth, your goal is to confirm your pre-existing beliefs.
<<We have evidence enough that these traitors did all they could to cover up and evade.
Covering up incompetence does not = complicity.
In addition Solari, you are DODGING THE QUESTION RODENT PUT FORTH. You made a claim of fact in regards to showing the footage of the WTC 7 collapse, and yet can't demonstrate how you know this fact. This demonstrates that you are putting forth assumption and conjecture as fact, which further demonstrates that your psyche' is working overtime to confirm your preexisting beliefs. So tell me Solari is it fact that Fox news handed Tucker this directive? If it is FACT, then please demonstrate how you know this to be fact. If you can't demonstrate it as fact, then admit that it was in reality assumption. If you can do this, it will at go a long way toward showing that you are beginning to at least be honest with yourself.
P.S. It is also convenient for you to claim that the only REAL evidence is unavailable. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 12:13 PMAre you suffering from Asperger's syndrome? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 12:20 PMDenigration is yet another form of dodging my questions. This should be a simple question to answer being that you put forth your theory regarding Tucker as fact. You should not put forth that which you are not willing to intellectually defend. Or are you suffering from intellectual cowardice Solari?
In addition, I know people with Asperger's Syndrome, and I find your use of it as a form of denigration to be highly offensive.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 12:33 PM> So tell me Solari is it fact that Fox news handed Tucker this directive?
Clarification: it was MSNBC not FOX (I actually watched the clip).
Also, before defending someones position, its best to check their references. Steven Jones is a physicist. That sounds very scientific and important except he deals with sub atomic physics and not structural engineering. Please note that he dealt with Cold Nuclear Fusion and believes that he has "archaeological evidence from the ancient Mayans as supporting his faith's belief that Jesus Christ visited America" (he's Mormon).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones
If that's your source, you'd better rethink your position. This is why I called into question the ae911 petition's worth. Just because you got an architects license doesn't mean you know anything about 40+ story high-rise structural engineering... or are sane. Also, you can be an electrical engineer without having to know anything about the load bearing limits of steel structural supports.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 12:39 PMMSNBC - Even better. And here you guys go trying to change the subject again. The subject here is the network making damn sure that Carlson kept that footage off the air. Steven Jones' bona fides are not at issue here. that is another subject entirely. Old troll tricks here. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 12:49 PM<<The subject here is the network making damn sure that Carlson kept that footage off the air.
OK, lets stick to this one aspect for now. Once again you present the above statement as fact and yet are unable to demonstrate that the network had anything to do with keeping the footage off the air. How can you honestly present as fact that which looks to be assumption and conjecture? If you are intellecutually honest, you will answer this question directly. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 12:55 PMIt's not a fact. It's just something that anyone not suffering from Asperger's syndrome can see.
I blame this all on George Bush Sr. when he elevated Dan Quayle into high politics and slowly destroyed everyone's judgement about slimy little creeps do slimy, creepy jobs and getting away with it in plain sight. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 1:02 PM<<It's not a fact.
So you admit that you are dishonestly presenting as fact that which is not demonstrated fact. At least you are admitting that you were dishonest.
<<It's just something that anyone not suffering from Asperger's syndrome can see.
Wow, yet more denigration of the handicapped. This is disgusting Solari, please stop.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 12:56 PMHe's just falling victim of a logical fallacy en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy
Let me interperet.
Since I believe that the buildings were demolished in a conspiracy therefore anyone trying to disprove me is wrong. Steven Jones position and video are true so any attempts to prevent this truth from being displayed is part of the conspiracy.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 12:57 PMFor those who have not read it yet here is the section of the Popular Mechanics article that explains the collapse of WTC 7
www.popularmechanics.com/techn...2.html
of course the 9/11 toofeers now say that Popular Mechanics was either in on the "conspiracy" or are a part of the "cover-up" -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 1:02 PMPopular Mechanics. LOL! That Hearst rag that had Benjamin Chertoff on the staff. Hearst busts in there and buys it and wipes out the original staff then puts jokers like Benjamin Chertoff on the payrool - basically rapes Popular Mechanics. Same Hearst that did the slimy hit piece on WTC 7 on the History Channel. What a piece of yellow journalism that was. You guys probably work for some of the same people. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 1:05 PMFrauds, that all any of these outfits are anymore - just big frauds. Can you imagine The Histroy Channel rinnung The Men Who Killed Kennedy like they use to do? Won't happen. All these mainstream media outlets have been bought and raped over a desk like a howling secretary.
www.nowpublic.com/history-c...ic-fraud-1
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 1:07 PMokay I admit I am also a member of the Illuminati and the Trilatteral commission. My job is to poke holes in your tinfoil hat so that the invisible rays from area 51 can brainwash you, the last independent thinker on Earth. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 1:10 PMSheeesh, we're in the shallow end of the genepool now... No Diving!!!
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 1:08 PM<<Popular Mechanics. LOL!
At the very least they are using scientists with expertise in a relevant field. Steven Jones does NOT have experience or training in a relevant field, ie structural safety, structurall engineering, or demolition.
<<You guys probably work for some of the same people.
It is delusional to think that just because we disagree with you that we are being paid to do so. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 1:12 PMThat's it. Steven Jones ain't a scientist, so we can't show footage of WTC 7 collapsing. Yeah, now I get it. Thanks for clearing that up guys! -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 1:14 PM"remember, remember the 5th of November"
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 1:21 PM<<That's it. Steven Jones ain't a scientist, so we can't show footage of WTC 7 collapsing. Yeah, now I get it. Thanks for clearing that up guys!
You are having reading comprehension problems, nobody indicated that the footage can't be shown because of Steven Jones lack of training in the structural field. This is a straw man Solari. The statement in regards to Steven Jones was in direct comparison to the Popular mechanics article you were discussing. ie indicating that the popular mechanics article was based on the evaulation of scientists in a relevant field. Steven Jones is not a scientist in a relevant field.
Again, they did not show footage of the firefighters LIVE on the scene. Does that mean that MSNBC was supressing that information? And why DID you lie by presenting as fact that which is assumption?
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, October 22, 2009 - 5:06 PMYou guys probably work for some of the same people.
Yeah, obviously we get our royalty cheques from Dick Cheney - the list ONLY includes all the FDNY, NIST, 90% of the worlds structural engineers and demolition experts, all the so called victims on the hijacked planes that didn't exist, the so called eyewitnesses in NY that day, the media, and on and on.
But of course no one's spilled the secret. Yup makes a lot of sense
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 5:44 PMThe slanted/angular cuts in the main vertical support beams found at the site are highly indicative of pre rigging.
Explain that one away all you want. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 1:43 AM>The slanted/angular cuts in the main vertical support beams found at the site are highly indicative of pre rigging.
>Explain that one away all you want.
Yeah, or the cleanup crew had to cut the remaining vertical supports and other various bits of debris during the aftermath...
Also, thermite doesn't burn horizontally and is never used in demolition... ever!
douche
www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 2:01 AMSlanted/angular cuts? Thermite burns straight down, following gravity.
But I guess the laws of physics may be violated so long as it's in service of whackjob conspiracy theories. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 2:15 AM"thermite doesn't burn horizontally "
" Thermite burns straight down, following gravity. "
However linear horizontal thermite cutting charges do exist..
as you can see in this interesting video..
www.youtube.com/watch -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 2:58 PMHurm, notice how much bigger the device is compared to what it's cutting? For this device to work on the twin towers, the devices would be bigger than the damn building. not to mention how much residue would be remaining?
shezz, it's like shouting at a brick wall with these people.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 1:01 AMThat wasn't a charge. It was a torch. So the thousands of office workers in the area didn't notice workers using giant ass cutting torches to cut the steel supports of the buildings.
This is comic book silliness
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:04 PM<<The slanted/angular cuts in the main vertical support beams found at the site are highly indicative of pre rigging.
Explain that one away all you want.>>
It has been explained numerous times, you simply choose to ignore. The angular cuts you are speaking of happened during the cleanup, ie using cutting torches to split the steel columns so they could be hauled away. There are photos of workers in the act of creating these angled cuts. Why would you completely ignore this? Please directly address this issue.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:06 PMHere is a photo of an iron worker creating an angled cut during the cleanup.
hereisnewyork.org/gallery/showbig.asp -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 9:55 PMThat was obviously photographed before the collapses and he's clearly using thermite. All the office workers who were working around him have been cleverly photo shopped out.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 11:29 AMWhat, no response to this photo showing cleanup crews creating angular cuts? Once again a truther makes a claim, that claim is debunked, and they ignore it.... Then they will come back a month later and make the same false claim. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 11:33 AMThat mo has been repeated over and over and over again. That intellectual dishonest and the outright lies make it very hard to give those folks any kind of credibility or respect. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 11:36 AMMuch like the birthers.
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 3:13 AM"29 Structural & Civil Engineers Cite Evidence for Controlled Demolition in Collapses of All 3 WTC High-Rises on 9/11 "
Bullshit. Name them.
"More than 700 architects and engineers have joined call for new investigation,"
All but a handful of whom are neither structural nor civil engineers.
"The facts are in. The evidence is conclusive."
More like thieir prestablished opinions are unshakable regardless of the evidence.
If the evidence is so conclusive, why do truthers insist on lying about the evidence, such as the oft repeated, completely manufactured lies about "pull it" and "free fall?"
"Here is the top demolition expert from Europe.Danny Jowenko on WTC 7 controlled demolition "
Truthers conveniently neglect the fact that Jowemko categorically rejects a controlled demo theory for the Twin Towers.
And his assessment of WTC7 was based solely on his reaction to the video, and is contradicted by Implosionworld experts who studied the issue more thoroughly. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 9:37 AM"29 Structural & Civil Engineers Cite Evidence for Controlled Demolition in Collapses of All 3 WTC High-Rises on 9/11 "
<<<<Bullshit. Name them. "
These engineers are listed in the original article i posted with credentials , years of experience and photos..
www.ae911truth.org/download...06-17.pdf
Can you comply with the minimal standards of due diligence before you call bullshit? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 10:12 AMArchitects do not have relevent training or experience, subsequently the vast majority of this list don't mean shit. Why would truthers use people that don't have relevant training? Why would you indicate that the evidence is conclusive based on people without relevant expertise? Why would you ignore that the vast majority of those WITH relevant expertise do not agree with those without relevant experience? How do the opinions of those without relevant experience more credible than the vast majority of those with relevant experience? Lets say you have 29 that think 9-11 was controlled demolition. How is that conclusive being that 29 is such a tiny number in comparsion to the thousands of structural engineers that exist?
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 10:27 AMI've looked at that AE list in detail. First of all, belonging to that list doesn't mean they can or have cited evidence for controlled demolition in all three high rises on 9/11. Second of all, there are not 29 structural and civil engineers in that list.
Like I said, name them. You're the one who apparently hasn't read that list.
"Can you comply with the minimal standards of due diligence before you call bullshit? "
Can you comply with minimal standards of due diligence when you link sources you clearly haven't studied in detail? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 10:54 AMYes please Harmen, name these 29 individuals from the list with relevant training and experience. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 11:32 AMHarmen? Can you please list them? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 11:09 PM"Harmen? Can you please list them? "
Apparently not.
The 9/11 "Truth" movement has been notorious for outlandishly inflating the credentials of its supporters.
I frankly have never seen a conspiracy theory crowd so frequently guilty of misrepresentation and downright fabrication as this crowd, which is ironic given how they like to call themselves a "truth" movement. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 9:40 AMFor the third article
The 29 Structural & Civil Engineers are listed in this article!!!
This short list is civil & structural engineers only!!!
www.ae911truth.org/download...06-17.pdf
Do your due diligence and click on the link!!!!
"Harmen? Can you please list them? "
So the answer is...
Yes!!!! But i am not going to waste my time typing over 29 names from a pdf file for a bunch of people that FAIL to investigate..
I am not talking about the long list of 953 Architects and Engineers here that is growing so very fast..
You can find that long list here..
www.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 11:21 AMHarmen, how can you count 953 architects and engineers that don't have any relevant training or experience? Their analysis has as much bearing as you or I being that they don't have the expertese. 29 people with ACTUAL training and experience out of the WHOLE WORLD is miniscule in number.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 4:57 PMFirst of all, that article cites about 13 or so alleged structural and civil engineers at most, not 29. It then lists signatories to the AE911truth site, but being a signatory to that site just means that they agree withg the following petition statement:
"On Behalf of the People of the United States of America, the undersigned Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth and affiliates hereby petition for, and demand, a truly independent investigation with subpoena power in order to uncover the full truth surrounding the events of 9/11/01 - specifically the collapses of the World Trade Center Towers and Building 7. We believe there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened and must include a full inquiry into the possible use of explosives that might have been the actual cause of the destruction of the World Trade Center Twin Towers and Building 7. "
Asserting the above means they want a new investigation including study of the possible use of explosives. It doesn't mean that each signatory cites evidence for controlled demolition in the collapses of all three WTC high-rises on 9/11, which is what the article authors assert the engineers do. Therefore, the article title is a lie.
Furthermore, at least three of the engineers listed at the bottom are not structural or civil engineers. Anders Bjorkman is an architect and marine engineer - he makes ships. He's neither a civil nor a structural engineer. Erwin De Jong is a mechanical engineer, not a structural or civil engineer. Jerome Royer is a mechanical engineer who works in high energy physics; he's neither a civil nor a structural engineer.
And that assumes that the descriptions of the individuals listed are honest and accurate. Given the notorious history the truth movement has in brazen inflation of the credentials of its supporters, that's a big leap of faith.
So once again, the title of that article is a lie.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 11:27 AM> These engineers are listed in the original article i posted with credentials , years of experience and photos..
www.ae911truth.org/download...06-17.pdf
"All the structural engineers below have signed the AE911Truth petition. Not all of them were interviewed for this
article."
BWA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
LOL!!!!!!
please reread my previous post about AE911's "statement"
"The petition only states "We believe there is sufficient doubt about the official story and therefore the 9/11 investigation must be re-opened" "the possible use of explosives" "hat might have been the actual cause".
"doubt", "possible", "might". Nowhere does it say We the undersigned believe that the WTC 1, 2, 7 were collapsed by explosive demolition "
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 10:06 AM<<If the evidence is so conclusive, why do truthers insist on lying about the evidence, such as the oft repeated, completely manufactured lies about "pull it" and "free fall?"
Or the lie that nano-thermite existed in any sort of operational sense beyond the "basic research stage" in 2001. As a matter of fact, nobody has shown where nano-thermite has ever been ignited, even today. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 11:45 AMThe history of the 20th
century should have taught us that it is important to shape
circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they
become dire. The history of the past century should have taught us
to embrace the cause of American leadership.”
– From the Project’s founding Statement of Principles
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pnac- interpretation+_____
we need more $ for the military........we are the leaders and we make "situations" happen which are favorable to acheive our objectives............more $ for the military............and you citizens should follow us cause we know whats best for you.........of course we dont offer up any of our own family members to fight this war we are going to make........(recall this is all written prior to bush in office in 01)
later they talk about without a new pearl harbor -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 2:04 PM<<<later they talk about without a new pearl harbor
Wow, still trotting this out Stephen? Even after I have shot it down NUMEROUS times. Take note that this Pearl Harbor reference by you and other truthers is ALWAYS lacking in details. I have a deep animosity for Neocons and PNAC, but we have to be HONEST about what we put out there Stephen. And the reality is that the PNAC reference to Pearl Harbor was in regards to the urgency or lack thereof to upgrade computer hardware within the military. I am paraphrashing, but they essentially said that 'barring a pearl harbor type attack, the urgency to gain funding to upgrade aging computer hardware will not be forthcoming". And from this you and others have distorted it to mean that 'barring another pearl harbor type attack, we can't invade Iraq or limit American freedoms". You might actually try reading the PNAC document so that you can see the Pearl Harbor statement in context. Honesty and accuracy will give you crediblity, and that is what is missing from your movement. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 3:07 PMPlease note that it is futile to postulate motive when no crime has been proven.
Cart, horse
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rodent (putting the eek in geek)
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 11:55 AMFurther, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and
industrial policy will shape the pace and
content of transformation as much as the
requirements of current missions. PNAC
ok, just HOW was it they were going to "shape" events as stated in their preamble to get their objective......................
this gibberish nazi nonsense manifest destiny
unfortunately was brought on by bushco in their drumrolls to get Iraq...................
ok, fine.................
tell me this riddler
how was the bush objective to get iraq acheived.........?
follow the money....................
one scenerio the "official story my pet goat crowd" ignores.....................bush got to iraq because of 911
and you say it was just coincidence...............like bushes torture just happened to have dropped people in countries where it wouldnt be a crime........... -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 2:37 PM<<Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and
industrial policy will shape the pace and
content of transformation as much as the
requirements of current missions.
I guess you did find the information, but If you look at the rest of the paragraph, on page 51, it becomes apparent that all they are doing is laying out a timetable for technological transformation of the military. I was incorrect when I singled out computers, it was in regards to technological transformations in the military in general. The document goes on to list the transformations they are advocating, ALL programs that were in reality hurt by 9-11, primarily because they were still working from the idea that wars are with and against countries. Global missile defense,
Control of space and cyberspace, and Pursuing a two-stage strategy for transforming conventional forces.
Lets read the whole section in its totality, it speaks nothing of justification for invasion of the middle east and switching Americas focus to anti-insurgency, quite the opposite really.
Start on page 50 of the document. www.newamericancentury.org/Rebu...s.pdf -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 8:06 PMJust checking in....yup 9/11 twoofers are still crazy
9/11 was an outside jihad....silly
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:28 PMof course i noticed neither of you bothered to answer my questions
and i admit i dont know anymore than you official story believers know about 911
i just want an investigation by a neutral fact finder
not from bushco...............
who has obvious demonstrable ties to the bin ladin clan -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:44 PMOf course I noticed that you are ignoring my response to the CORE of your claim, while complaining that nobody answered your periferal questions, questions that are in reality inuendo based on your assumptions about the PNAC paper.
Take that assumption away, and what do we have? How did GW get us in to Iraq? He used fear mongering in regards to WMD to justify his invasion. Your inference seems to be that 9-11 was an inside job in order to create justification for invasion. This is illogical to me being that if they were going to create a false flag of this magnitude to create justification for invading Iraq, one would think they would use actual Iraqis to fly the planes in to the towers instead of Saudi Nationals. Take that in context with the fact that Bush & Co had to spend a lot of time co-minglling Iraq and Al Qaeda in their words, and that because of this 80% of people once thought Iraqi nationals flew the planes in to the tower...... and the picture looks more like Bush taking advantage of the tragedy to push his pre-existing agenda. Do you doubt that Bush would have trotted out the WMD and scared people in to thinking we should invade Iraq without 9-11? I don't doubt it one bit, and as president he could have ordered the invasion without our consent anyway. In other words, they had no reason to create a false flag, let alone the details of 9-11 not fitting with the idea of justification to invade Iraq.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:46 PMthe NIST report wasn't done by "bushco" stephen
unless you're trying to suggest that all of the NIST engineers et al are all on Bush's payroll and thus part of the elaborate conspiracy?
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:55 PMYes, NIST, the New York Fire Department, the New York Police Department, and all the people in the towers that dies on 9-11 were being paid off.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:54 PM<<not from bushco...............
who has obvious demonstrable ties to the bin ladin clan
If you are dealing in the oil business, dealing with a Bin Laden is not abnormal being that there are 100s of them and that they are one the richest clans in the richest oil country in the world. In regards to the Carlygle Group, thousands of people use the Carlyle group for investments, so that don't really mean shit either. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 2:20 PM
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 4:20 PM"who has obvious demonstrable ties to the bin ladin clan "
I buy gasoline. Part of our gasoline comes from the middle east. There are terrorists in the middle east. Therefore, I have ties with terrorists.
About the same level of logic
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 3:02 PMLousy Mueller III fabricated and destroyed three sets of exculpatory evidence including trial exhibits, and in contempt from SF-USDC Magistrate Larson's contemptuous CR98-0087, migrated to Director of the FBI, in bad faith.
Robert S. Mueller, III suppressed how the FBI knew the hijackers were in the states, but before the FBI could report, the NSA and CIA asserted bills of attainder, in violation of Art.I Sec.9 all constitutions, to prevent notice to any superiors or to the public, so Giuliani let the notice pass and murdered his police and fire fools, who ran up into towers, Giuliani and his punks KNEW were fatally stricken, so as to use his own neglect of media for emergencies, and of funding for this during deregulated power, to pass illegal costs, to the unions, which love Rudi and his NY Yankees box seats, which must burn the ass of any Yankee hitter, on deck.
Mueller had punk attorney Daniel Horowitz suppress review, while suppressing how 9/11 attacks were directed at Building 7, since seven years after the fat, deregulated energy deals, the twin towers are down, forever, and the prices of food and energy are through the roof.
Scott 'Evil' Dyleski, actually a really good guy got busted for whacking Horowitz' tricky wife, in Orinda.
The Bill Graham people were stealing music, with Nixon's warrantless conspiracy.
So why do you think they call it, PUNK ROCK? Usama bin Laden KNOWS Eddie Van Halen's former wife has a big butt, OK? He KNOWS that band with Indiana native Roth was a red state band, OK?
Jacko burned a Sheik for $7 million, committed suicide, Anna Nicole heard Imus say he'd nuke Saudi Arabia, and wonked, so when Jerry Brown slept with Linda Ronstadt in the 1970s, he profiled all the conspiracy to steal and overproduce property, all over the world, and now he proposes to prosecute Howard K. Stern and Dr. Murray, when Brown and his DOJ are late, to notice Jacko's cry to get busted, before he killed himself, to make a statement about how he WANTED to get busted, but Brown is another Joe Jackson, in Jesuit drag.
All riot. Chill, or beware order to desist at all gatherings, including weddings, you spawners of illegal persons and interests.
Get a clue! Trump is doomed, for fathering Blanket and running away, from a meth-head at riot, knowing he is a danger to children of interest, to any person and to him.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 3:05 PMJews are from Ethiopia, says Isaiah 20:5, and so when Barry popped 756 into McCovey Cove and uttered, "Isaiah," he drew Senate contempt and illegal prosecution, for an illegal subpoena, for the 2003 drug tests.
When you steal, try to steal everything, OK? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 8:05 PMguys
its called conflict of interest
make a neutral investigation.................if you were to recall bush fought ANY investigation of 911
and then when they did one..............it was set up by his buddies........
hellllloooo suckers.................
2. their is a strong case to make bush knew........his saudi buddies set it up...........not him...........but he knew it was coming and did nada
STRONG case................fbi knew........memos on his desk told him.....
and you all think no way...................based on what facts...........cause i got facts he knew it.........
all you gotta do is connect the dots and follow the $ -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 9:01 PM"make a neutral investigation."
Please explain why NIST was not neutral, and further explain the conditions you imagine for a "neutral" investigation -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 4:59 PMfrom 911hardfacts.com
The mother of them all. The one people cite all the time, saying that surely a 'bi-partisan/neutral' Congressional Committee would have uncovered any 'conspiracy plot'. This is an understandable theory and sentiment. But if we look at the record, we see that this Commission was a complete and utter whitewash. This is a committee that Cheney and Bush vigorously fought from being formed for well over a year. Why would the President and the Vice President resist the formation of a bi-partisan investigation into what is surely one of the gravest crimes committed against the United States? Committees to investigate Pearl Harbor, Kennedy's assassination, the Challenger disaster, were all formed within one week of the event. And yet Cheney and Bush fought hard to not investigate the events of 9/11 for more than a year. Why?
Even when the Committee was finally formed, it was absurdly under-funded and grossly mis-managed. The 9/11 Commission received a paltry $15 million for their 'investigation'. Compare that to the $40 million given to investigate Bill Clinton's oral sex escapade in the Oval Office 5 years earlier. The Commission was headed by Thomas Kean, director of oil giant Amerada Hess, co-chairman of Homeland Security Project, and a man with strong business ties to Saudis Khalid bin Mahfouz. Hardly a man likely to seriously challenge the Bush/Cheney (fellow oilmen) conclusions hammered into the public's consciousness over the previous year. Moreover, the executive director of the Commission, and the man in charge of determining its use of funds, direction of inquiry, etc., was Philip Zelikow. This is a man who wrote a book with Condaleeza Rice, now acts as one of her senior advisors, was a member of George W. Bush's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, and a member of the Bush-Cheney transition team after their first election. The conflicts of interest are glaringly obvious, and Philip Zelikow was hardly the man equipped for the hard-nosed, deliberate investigation 9/11 so deserved. (For a quick general overview of the rest of the Commission and their inherent inability to do any kind of serious, probing investigation, see this link.
As cited many times in this paper, Cofer Black, head of counter terrorism for the CIA, "felt there were things the commissions wanted to know about and things they didn't want to know about." So it is hardly surprising that the Commission made fatal errors in judgment, ignored whole swaths of evidence, re-arranged facts to fit their working/given narrative, and produced a document that has served only to further confuse and divert a serious investigation into 9/11. Examples are ubiquitous. The Commission, though well aware of a July 10, 2001 meeting between Cofer Black, George Tenet, and Condaleeza Rice in which the CIA officers warned Rice of an impending al-Qaeda attack on American soil, failed to mention this meeting. They failed to mention the Able Danger military operation that had tagged Mohammed Atta as a serious terrorist threat one full year before 9/11. They failed to mention that WTC Building 7, a massive 47-story high-rise in downtown Manhattan that was not hit by any airplane, crumbled to the ground in a neat foot-print at virtually free-fall speed in the exact manner of a controlled demolition because of damage sustained solely from fire - a new discovery about the nature of iron and steel that engineers, wood burning stove owners, and chefs with their expensive steel frying pans across the world would surely be interested in hearing more about. They failed to account for the nature and speed of the Twin Towers' collapse. They failed to mention Norman Mineta's damning testimony of VP Dick Cheney's incriminating behavior in the White House Bunker on the morning of 9/11. They changed FAA response times and military contact narratives. They made up stories of phantom flights, crowded radar screens, and operational chaos within organizations that have air-tight standard operating procedures that, by all other accounts, were strictly adhered to on the morning of 9/11. They refused to listen to oral testimony from NYC firefighters who were present at Ground Zero. The Report lied, contradicted itself, and shaped its narrative through a systematic and continual omission of pertinent facts and evidence.
For a thorough, detailed, academic dismantling of the 9/11 Commission and its Report, see this link.
C. NIST Report
The National Institute of Standards and Technology was a government appointed agency charged with investigating the structural collapse of the World Trade Center. They have been touted as the group of engineers whose work and findings serve to wholly put to rest any notions of a 'conspiracy theory', positing that damage from the impact of the airplanes, and the subsequent fires, led to the scientifically explainable collapse of the Towers. To further this supposition, they first published a 10,000 page report, then a 250 page condensed version. All perhaps geared to look impressive and official from the outside looking in.
But if and when a curious individual actually bothers to read these reports, they will find a 'scientific' investigation that is almost comical in its approach. Most crimes are investigated and solved by collecting evidence, pouring over said evidence, testing all available hypotheses, plugging evidence into said hypotheses, and working from the bottom up to create a sensible narrative and explanation of events. NIST did the exact opposite. Almost no evidence was collected. The steel beams, girders, joists, panels, columns, perimeter plates, flooring, sub-basement material, etc. was quickly gathered, transported to ship yards in and around NYC, cut up, and shipped off to Asia where it was sold for recycling. While some engineers were allowed to 'tour' the site at Ground Zero, virtually NO evidence was collected for the NIST investigation.
In a gross violation of the scientific method, NIST was given a self-evident conclusion by its employers (the Unites States Government) - that 19 Arab hijackers flew airplanes into buildings, fires followed, and buildings collapsed - and they were told to figure out on computer models how this scenario was possible and explainable. What followed was a farcical, top-down investigation - where facts and variables were neatly arranged to reproduce given results. When the building fires in their computer models didn't burn hot enough to soften the Tower's steel, they simply added phantom variables to produce more oxygen and fuel. And like with the 9/11 Commission, all pertinent evidence that contradicted their desired results was simply ignored. For example, when NIST was questioned by certain scientists who discovered that their 10,000 page report STILL did not account for the Towers' impossible rate and method of collapse, NIST responded that their investigation studied the events leading up until the moment the Towers were 'poised for collapse'. Not beyond. Another in a long line of absurd responses that have proven so common to all the 'official' investigations.
There are a number of engineers and researchers who are eminently more qualified to speak to the specific anomalies of the NIST report than I. And I have provided links to their excellent, comprehensive work below. But it is worth mentioning something much simpler, something that can easily and simply undermine any authority NIST and its engineers may once have held. And it is the fact that these NIST engineers, whom defenders of the 'official story' so trust and laud as un-biased and thorough investigators, have now admitted that their first theory, the 'pancake collapse' theory showcased on NOVA, the Discovery Channel, in the NY Times, etc. for more than two years, has been proven wholly unreasonable and beyond scientific probability. NIST, without any sense of responsibility to explain their mistakes, has now simply agreed to scrap their first explanation, and they have moved on to a new 'pile driver' theory to replace their old theory, with all sorts of other fancy computer models, jargon, and convoluted narratives offered as proof. But if their first theory, paraded out with other similar computer graphics and plot lines, has been admitted fictitious and filled with errors, why are we now to believe the new and improved version of the story? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 6:05 PMoh great another crazy 9/11 conspiracy web site with no basis in facts
Nice!
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 12:37 PM>>oh great another crazy 9/11 conspiracy web site with no basis in facts<<
Really? Explain how you know this. Or does simply you saying it make it true? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 1:00 PM<<Really? Explain how you know this. Or does simply you saying it make it true? >>
Well because it's all been debunked a thousand times over.
Just because the truthers simply put their fingers in their ears and ignore said evidence doesn't make their conspiracy fantasies true
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 10:57 PMFarcical beyond belief. The US has been living in a very bad nightmare since the staged op of 911 and the ensuing rash of conspiracies and double dealings that were the Bush and now the Obama administrations.
Peggy Noonan has it spot on:
online.wsj.com/article/SB...926354.html -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 12:51 PMJust because the official lie propounders simply put their fingers in their ears and ignore said evidence doesn't make their conspiracy fantasies true
thats why we want investigation by a Neutral FACT finder -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 3:00 PMIt's easier to look at the manner in which the establishment sought to cover up. One of the exhibits would be Tucker Carlson. Another example - witness intimidation during the commission's inquiry. Another example - Rumsfeld AWOL during the critical hours when decisions for shoot down could have been made and made by him only. Another example - Cheney's orders to let the bogey incoming to the Pentagon come in without interference.
Actions speak louder than words.
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:50 AM"thats why we want investigation by a Neutral FACT finder "
Right, one who is so neutral that they will refuse to come to any conclusion the truthers don't want to hear. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 6:30 AMOh, we'll take our chances on that. -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 9:56 PM"Oh, we'll take our chances on that. "
Of course you will. If they reach conclusions that contradict truther articles of faith, they'll just claim the investigation wasn't really neutral. What chances are truthers taking when truthers will simply reject any conclusion that doesn't fit their articles of faith? -
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Re: Tucker Carlson - 911 Waterboy
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 7:46 AMNo formal conclusion necessary. Just let the american people see the testimony that was excluded the first time, and let them make up their own minds.
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