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Unsu...
Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 11:04 PMAnd please do enjoy the graphic wherein we see that only 2% would call his regime a success.
Now I know math isn't much prized by the lunatic right, but let me help--that means that 98 per cent think it a failure.
In the real world you don't occupy, this is called a fairly large majority. -
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Unsu...
Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 11:07 PM"My reasons are similar to those cited by other historians:
In the wake of the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001, the United States enjoyed enormous support around the world. President Bush squandered that goodwill by taking the country into an unnecessary war of choice and misleading the American people to gain support for that war. And he failed utterly to have a plan to deal with Iraq after the invasion. He further undermined the international reputation of the United States by justifying torture.
Mr. Bush inherited a sizable budget surplus and a thriving economy. By pushing through huge tax cuts for the rich while increasing federal spending at a rapid rate, Bush transformed the surplus into a massive deficit.
The tax cuts and other policies accelerated the concentration of wealth and income among the very richest Americans. These policies combined with unwavering opposition to necessary government regulations have produced the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
Then there is the incredible shrinking dollar, the appointment of incompetent cronies, the totally inexcusable failure to react properly to the disaster of Hurricane Katrina, the blatant disregard for the Constitution—and on and on.
Like a majority of other historians who participated in this poll, my conclusion is that the preponderance of the evidence now indicates that, while this nation has had at least its share of failed presidencies, no previous presidency was as large a failure in so many areas as the current one."
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 11:21 PM -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 5:41 AMThanks, Dustin. I was afraid we were gonna have to do this all over again.... -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 5:48 AMBush will be ranked at around 8th best president --somewhere above or below Harry Truman, who is around there.
This silliness that "Bush is the worst president" is standard fare for the brain-dead, Hitler youth, AKA "liberals". Seriously, are you real people? Real human beings? Could human beings be so woefully stupid? Is that possible? Apparently, yes! -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 6:01 AM"somewhere above or below Harry Truman"
Yeah, but he was like the # 1 haberdasher of all time, so it kinda made up for being a shitty president. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 6:04 AMTruman is ranked as one of our greatest presidents, but you wouldn't know because you're a liberal and liberals are stupid people. Get off this chat board and read some history --any standard book will do --but you need to be better educated. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 6:11 AMThanks, Duana. But I'm not a liberal and I've read plenty of history.
So go fuck yourself. -
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Unsu...
Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 8:13 AM>brain-dead, Hitler youth, AKA "liberals".
At least we're youthful. Oh--and Seth? Fuck yourself with a rusty chainsaw in the ass, please.
Love, a Jew -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 8:37 AMIan,
I can see you're a real "classy" guy, in the "Sheik" mold of calling me "fuckface" 3 times, amongst other things. All, instead of addressing the issues I raise: clear as day signs that you have no response: a mark of a liberal. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 9:14 AM<< Bush will be ranked at around 8th best president >>
Prove.
PS- Findings from your Ouija's board don't count as evidence. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 9:20 AM<<PS- Findings from your Ouija's board don't count as evidence. >>
ha ha
and neither will findings pulled from his ass.... -
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Unsu...
Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 9:22 AMBy implication, you called me a Nazi.
Inna--can we now give this new alt a first warning?
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 12:48 PMSeth,
Figures that you try and make yourself into the big victim. What a weasel. You deserve any abuse that you get, you totally ask for it with your obnoxious rants about people that you don't know and your incessant need to insult people simply because they don't share your unfounded opinions.
You don't like the names I called you? Tough shit.
Oh no fragile Seth was called fuckface 3 whole times......stop the presses!!!!! This just in....Seth gets some of his own medicine and whines about it. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 12:53 PMSeth,
I watched your interview with Al Roker and must tell you that you made a total ass of yourself Mr. Bookumentary. What a joke.
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Unsu...
Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 12:53 PM>Historians who jump into this fray whilst the man is still in office almost disqualify themselves as partisan by participating.
Glen, your braying illogiic aside....wait; that's all there is.
By your logic, a historian looking at the concentration camps in 1944 who said out loud that they were sort bad would be nothing more, clearly, than a partisan hack. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 2:21 PMIan,
If you're comparing concentration camps to Guantanamo you're a partisan hack. And I might add.........intellectually dishonest.
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 2:29 PMI'm sure the people at Guantanamo are starving and killing themselves because it's so pleasant there. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 2:31 PMI don't think that was Glenzzz point. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 2:38 PMIt may be too early to call his presidency THE WORST, that is why I have been saying that Bush is ONE OF if not THE WORST presidents we've had. But it is never too early to call presidents on their fuck-ups. I started calling him a fuck-up before he even stole the first election. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 2:42 PMOk, and this has what to do with the comparison of Guantanamo to the Concentration Camps? -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 2:44 PMNo one did that. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 2:46 PMAnyway, a more apt comparison would be the concentration camps to all the secret prisons, our whole prison system, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and Israel's prisons.
Not just Guantanamo vs. concentration camps. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 2:47 PM"Anyway, a more apt comparison would be the concentration camps to all the secret prisons, our whole prison system, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and Israel's prisons. "
I think you would be trivializing what the Concentration Camps actually were, if you did that -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 2:59 PMLike I care what you think.
I in no way mean to trivialize what happened to the many victims of the Nazis. I shouldn't even have to say that. It's obviously horrible what happened.
But I also do not think it is too early to condemn all the torture and killing that has happened under Bush Sr., Clinton, and G W Bush. UN Sanctions, supported by the US under Clinton, killed over a million people and the studies that purport to be the most accurate show 1 million+ dead in Iraq since Operation Iraqi Freedom started in 2003.
4 million refugees isn't too stellar, either.
And our prison population here in the US has been skyrocketing, prisons are being filled up with non-violent drug offenders. Waste of money, and contrary to ideas stated in our founding documents.
Unless we are harming others we should be allowed to partake.
Bush = FAIL -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 3:17 PM<<UN Sanctions, supported by the US under Clinton, killed over a million people>>
It's true that Bush Sr. set up the sanctions. They were intended to ensure that Iraq would be demilitarized. The no fly zones were put in place to stop Saddam from slaughtering his people. I'm not sure what you think should have been done in this case. As for Clinton, it was Clinton who proposed the oil for food program in the UN. It was abused badly by the administrators in the UN and Saddam Hussien. Poor quality food was purchased and money was diverted to build palaces. I don't see how you can link that death toll to Clinton. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 3:29 PMNolen, 1 million people died from the sanctions. How could I possibly support that? If they were designed to limit Hussein, then they failed in a large way. I can support a no-fly-zone, but not killing 1 million people. Saddam Hussein wasn't even one of them. And look, now we've killed Saddam, but we're still in Iraq, killing more people.
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 3:30 PM"Like I care what you think."
Why the need to turn this personal ?
"I in no way mean to trivialize what happened to the many victims of the Nazis. I shouldn't even have to say that. It's obviously horrible what happened."
Well, that is exactly what you are doing
"But I also do not think it is too early to condemn all the torture and killing that has happened under Bush Sr., Clinton, and G W Bush. UN Sanctions, supported by the US under Clinton, killed over a million people and the studies that purport to be the most accurate show 1 million+ dead in Iraq since Operation Iraqi Freedom started in 2003."
This is a red herring. Your origenal post was this:
"Anyway, a more apt comparison would be the concentration camps to all the secret prisons, our whole prison system, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and Israel's prisons. "
Learn to stay on topic
"4 million refugees isn't too stellar, either."
This is a red herring. Your origenal post was this:
"Anyway, a more apt comparison would be the concentration camps to all the secret prisons, our whole prison system, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and Israel's prisons. "
"And our prison population here in the US has been skyrocketing, prisons are being filled up with non-violent drug offenders. Waste of money, and contrary to ideas stated in our founding documents. "
Yes, but our prisons are built to allow people to *live* in them. This is a huge difference to a system designed to *kill* people.
PS No, I do not support the current way we run law enforcement and our prison system. But that doesn't mean I am going to compare it to what the Nazi's did to the Jews and Romani
"Unless we are harming others we should be allowed to partake."
How does this support your origenal premise? -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 3:38 PM<Why the need to turn this personal ?>
Like how you insinuated that I'm trying to minimize how bad the Holocaust was?
<Well, that is exactly what you are doing>
See? Stop.
<Learn to stay on topic >
I am on topic. The topic is about how bad of a president Bush is. I said that he may not be *the worst* but rather *one of the worst.* You're not even saying anything except that I'm a Holocaust denier. If that is how you're going to be, then fuck off. Gently.
<Yes, but our prisons are built to allow people to *live* in them. This is a huge difference to a system designed to *kill* people.>
I guess you've never heard of death row. Death row is the state killing people.
<PS No, I do not support the current way we run law enforcement and our prison system. But that doesn't mean I am going to compare it to what the Nazi's did to the Jews and Romani >
Then don't do it. What about all the other people that the Nazis killed? It wasn't just "Jews and Romani." Why are you trying to minimize how bad the Holocaust was? See how unfair that is to do to someone?
<How does this support your origenal premise?>
It shows that people are unjustly imprisoned in the US.
Bush = FAIL
I'm out. Arguing with you is pointless. A few minutes go by and we're Holocaust deniers. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 3:49 PM"Like how you insinuated that I'm trying to minimize how bad the Holocaust was? "
That was nothing personal against,you, and I doubt that you were knowingly doing it
"See? Stop."
You first
"I am on topic. The topic is about how bad of a president Bush is. I said that he may not be *the worst* but rather *one of the worst.* You're not even saying anything except that I'm a Holocaust denier. If that is how you're going to be, then fuck off. Gently."
That wasn't the topic at all. Here is your post:
"Anyway, a more apt comparison would be the concentration camps to all the secret prisons, our whole prison system, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and Israel's prisons. "
"I guess you've never heard of death row. Death row is the state killing people. "
Do you really want to compare the number of people, and the motives behind death row to the holocaust? This is why I am saying that you are trivializing what the Concentration Camps really meant
"Then don't do it. What about all the other people that the Nazis killed? It wasn't just "Jews and Romani." Why are you trying to minimize how bad the Holocaust was? See how unfair that is to do to someone?"
But I am not comparing it to a regular prison system
"It shows that people are unjustly imprisoned in the US. "
Yes, but they are not being cooked in ovens for just being a Jew
"I'm out. Arguing with you is pointless. A few minutes go by and we're Holocaust deniers. "
Quit with the crying and the needless strawman. I said you were trivializing the Holocaust, and you are -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 3:58 PM<That was nothing personal against,you, and I doubt that you were knowingly doing it >
I wasn't knowingly OR unknowingly minimizing the horror of the Holocaust.
The topic of this thread is my topic. Anything else that you suggest is my topic is not my topic.
And about our prisons, some of our prisons are built by the same that built the Nazi camps.
www.smh.com.au/news/natio...319298.html
About Guantanamo, one prisoner said, 'It's like a Nazi camp'
<they are not being cooked in ovens for just being a Jew>
Why are you trying to minimize all the other people besides Jews that were killed in the camps? What are you, a Holocaust denier? See how annoying that is?
<Quit with the crying and the needless strawman. I said you were trivializing the Holocaust, and you are >
TAKE THAT BACK. I WAS NOT. I know how bad it was, I have been to the Holocaust Museum, and I have spent time with actual survivors of the Holocaust talking with them about it, and I am in no way attempting to trivialize what happened there. It was horrible. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:04 PM"The topic of this thread is my topic. Anything else that you suggest is my topic is not my topic"
No, I was responding to this:
"Anyway, a more apt comparison would be the concentration camps to all the secret prisons, our whole prison system, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and Israel's prisons. "
But if you would like to keep ignoring that, then fine
"About Guantanamo, one prisoner said, 'It's like a Nazi camp' "
But if he was really in a concentration camp, then he would be dead, and unable to make such a poor comparison
"Why are you trying to minimize all the other people besides Jews that were killed in the camps? What are you, a Holocaust denier? See how annoying that is?"
It is not annoying at alll, and only serves to paint you in a poor light
"TAKE THAT BACK. I WAS NOT. I know how bad it was, I have been to the Holocaust Museum, and I have spent time with actual survivors of the Holocaust talking with them about it, and I am in no way attempting to trivialize what happened there. It was horrible."
Then quit trying to compare it to a regular prison system -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:06 PM<But if he was really in a concentration camp, then he would be dead, and unable to make such a poor comparison>
Yeah he could be dead like other former alive inmates at Guantanamo. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:07 PM"Yeah he could be dead like other former alive inmates at Guantanamo."
Reason isn't your strong suit, huh? -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:32 PM<Reason isn't your strong suit, huh?>
Honesty isn't your strong suit, huh? You said you weren't trying to make this personal, but you've called me childish and now you're insulting my intelligence and said I'm crying when I straight up called you on your bullshit accusation that I'm minimizing the horror of the Holocaust.
It was REALLY BAD, OK? REALLY BAD. And there is a lot of REALLY BAD stuff happening in prisons in the world today, too, torture, even torturing to death of inmates who will never see a courtroom. They'll just be detained until they die unless we shut them down. And I never said that concentration camps and the prisons of today are EQUALS, although some of the prisons today are built by those responsible for the concentration camps, what I said is that a "more apt comparison" would be a BUNCH of prisons, not just Guantanamo, when you dishonestly said there was a comparison of Guantanamo to Concentration Camps. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:37 PM"Honesty isn't your strong suit, huh? You said you weren't trying to make this personal, but you've called me childish and now you're insulting my intelligence and said I'm crying when I straight up called you on your bullshit accusation that I'm minimizing the horror of the Holocaust."
No, it is true. See: "Anyway, a more apt comparison would be the concentration camps to all the secret prisons, our whole prison system, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and Israel's prisons. "
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:45 PM<No, it is true.>
NO, IT IS NOT TRUE
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:07 PM<Then quit trying to compare it to a regular prison system>
As long as we're being really stupidly and unfairly accusatory, don't try to minimize how bad the prison system is. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:07 PM"As long as we're being really stupidly and unfairly accusatory, don't try to minimize how bad the prison system is."
When did I ever? -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:24 PM<When did I ever?>
That's the point. You never did. And I never tried to minimize how bad the Holocaust was.
And Guantanamo, Facility 1391, and foreign secret prisons replete with prisoners supplied through extraordinary rendition are not "regular prison systems." -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:27 PM"That's the point. You never did. And I never tried to minimize how bad the Holocaust was. "
Sure you did, right here:
"Anyway, a more apt comparison would be the concentration camps to all the secret prisons, our whole prison system, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and Israel's prisons. "
"And Guantanamo, Facility 1391, and foreign secret prisons replete with prisoners supplied through extraordinary rendition are not "regular prison systems.""
Yes, I agree, but it is still a HUGE stretch to compare them to the Holocaust -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:35 PM<Sure you did, right here>
It is not OK to level that accusation at me, especially when I have stated OVER AND OVER in this very thread how horrible it was. -
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Re: 61% of Historians Rate the Bush Presidency Worst
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 4:39 PMWell, you are the one who compared it to the US prison system
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