-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 5:59 PMI wonder if anyone has done a similar pool on blacks? -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 7:46 PMthis is what some of these lovely West Virginians had to say:
"There's all this talk he's a Muslim although he claims to be Christian", while another said: "Some people are going to have problems voting for a black man".
FUCKINGUNBELIEVABLE......just amazing. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 8:13 PMso 20% of whotes in WV are voting based on color....
Do you think the percentage is higher in the black community? and if so, isn't it just as racist to vote FOR him solely on skin color?
Obama even says this about Black voters:
"I guarantee you African-American turnout, if I'm the nominee, goes up 30 percent around the country, minimum,"
www.diversityinc.com/public/...rint.cfm
and in MS, where 9/10 blacks voted for Obama....4 in 10 ( that is 40 percent, you know, twice the percentage you are appalled at in the original post) said:
"race was important in choosing their candidate."
www.newsmax.com/politics/c.../79629.html
Like I said....isn't this just as racist? -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 8:53 PM>> Sets: Like I said....isn't this just as racist? <<
There is nothing racist about Blacks voting for Obama. Catholics voted for Kennedy, women are supporting Clinton - why the hell shouldn't Blacks support Obama? Southerners tend to vote for southerners in national elections - the Democrats have consistently relied on that to win elections (Bill Clinton and Al Gore, for example).
Blacks tend to vote Democratic for a simple reason - the Democratic party has consistently supported civil rights for the last 40 years - while the Republican party has consistently opposed civil rights. The way in which the Bush Administration has handled civil rights within the Justice Department over the last 7+ years is an important case in point. Because Blacks make up such a crucial part of the Democratic party coalition there should obviously be Black candidates contesting for the presidential nomination - the only real surprise is that it has taken this long to get this far. And no one should be very surprised that Black Democrats support the first Black to have a serious shot at this thing. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 9:07 PMwait aminute...the original post was acting that it's racist to vote specifically based on race....but it isn't racist when black people specifically vote on race? Doesn't make sense....either it is, or it isn't...
""""""""the Democratic party has consistently supported civil rights for the last 40 years - while the Republican party has consistently opposed civil rights.""""""""""
you should read up on history...specifically Southern Democrats in the civil rights movement...
"""""Blacks tend to vote Democratic """""
I said nothing about Blacks voting Dem....I said they are voting Obama specifically based on race...they are voting Obama over any other Dem specifically based on race....how is it any different that a white guy voting specifically for Clinton based on race...like the title suggests? -
-
Like. Someone. Named. Clinton.
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 9:45 PM>> Sets: wait aminute...the original post was acting that it's racist to vote specifically based on race....but it isn't racist when black people specifically vote on race? Doesn't make sense....either it is, or it isn't... <<
The original post was also full of shit. Exit pollsters ask people whether or not "race" or "gender" were "factors" and/or "important". But what the fuck does that mean? Over half of the people who voted for Obama in North Carolina answered yes to the question of whether or not gender was important. I know for a fact that some people vote against Clinton because she is a woman - but I seriously doubt that half of the people who voted for Obama in NC only did so only out of misogyny.
What is bullshit is for Obama's droogies to go run to their mommies screaming "RACIST" every time someone votes for Clinton - especially when they do so on the basis of the same exit polling that could just as easily "prove" that Obama is simply riding a wave of misogyny to the nomination.
I mean seriously - if EITHER OF THEM becomes president they will have to overcome bigotry to do so, and both candidates can legitimately point to that. But it's just infantile to use it as an excuse every time you lose. Any Black or woman candidate can be a target of bigotry - that is nothing to brag about.
What we need are candidates who can overcome bigotry
Like someone named Hillary Clinton.
-
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:13 AM<<There is nothing racist about Blacks voting for Obama.
For once, I agree wholeheartedly with everything Cornel has said here. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:22 AM>> Jeff: For once, I agree wholeheartedly with everything Cornel has said here. <<
Mbwahahahahaha - now you, too, are a tool of Rush Limbaugh........ -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:35 AMNo, I just think that people on both sides are slinging around the race card. Demographics are a fact of life, and people will tend to vote for people they think they can connect with and that understand them. There is nothing racist about it, it is human nature. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:47 AM>> Jeff: There is nothing racist about it, it is human nature. <<
In that case we genuinely do agree. Sorry for being slow to see that.
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 4:31 PM"""""""""There is nothing racist about it, it is human nature. """"""""
but 20% of the white's who voted based on race are asshole racists, but the 40% of blacks who voted are just following human nature?
Hmmm -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 4:43 PMDid I say that human nature is different for blacks than it is for whites? -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 5:31 PMso you are saying you don't have a problem with some white people voting based on race? -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 5:39 PMIf anyone is voting based on racism I most certainly have a problem with that. Voting for a candidate that you think is familiar with your concerns is another thing entirely. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 5:48 PMthat's not what was presented....
What was presented was "2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV" ....
I presented "4 in 10 Blacks cite race as voting factor in MS"
How is there a difference?
there isn't..
well except for the extra 20%
you are using WV as some basis for shameful behavior...but excusing the same behavior in MS as "human nature"...can't both instances be human nature? Isn't it human nature to fear what is visually different? Actually it isn't just human nature, it's nature in general....
But you'll shine a negative light on it when a poor southern white does it, but a poor southern black is totally cool, because they share the same skin and are more likely to identify with the candidate...... But the white guy voting based on race, even though they may identify racially with the candidate, is somehow portrayed negatively....why?
Either it's okay for all, or okay for none.....that is the meaning of true equality...either you are appalled at all instances or not....anything other is a biased opinion and borderline racist...
Me personally, I'm appalled at all instances of someone voting just because of skin color. But I'm into equality... -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 5:54 PM<<that's not what was presented....
Race as a factor does not = Racism as the reason.
<<you are using WV as some basis for shameful behavior...
Where exactly did I indicate any such thing?
<<but excusing the same behavior in MS as "human nature"...
You are clearly not paying attention, I did not indicate that in one state it means one thing and another state it means another. It is human nature, period. Pay attention to what I have been writing Sets.
<<But you'll shine a negative light on it when a poor southern white does it
Where exactly did I shine a negative light? You seem to be having reading comprehension problems.
<<But the white guy voting based on race, even though they may identify racially with the candidate, is somehow portrayed negatively....why?
You would have a point if I had actually portrayed it that way.
READ the posts. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 6:08 PMRead the part where I agreed with Everything Cornel said as well.... -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 6:47 PMso you agree with this?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"""""""""The original post was also full of shit. Exit pollsters ask people whether or not "race" or "gender" were "factors" and/or "important". But what the fuck does that mean? Over half of the people who voted for Obama in North Carolina answered yes to the question of whether or not gender was important. I know for a fact that some people vote against Clinton because she is a woman - but I seriously doubt that half of the people who voted for Obama in NC only did so only out of misogyny.
What is bullshit is for Obama's droogies to go run to their mommies screaming "RACIST" every time someone votes for Clinton - especially when they do so on the basis of the same exit polling that could just as easily "prove" that Obama is simply riding a wave of misogyny to the nomination.
I mean seriously - if EITHER OF THEM becomes president they will have to overcome bigotry to do so, and both candidates can legitimately point to that. But it's just infantile to use it as an excuse every time you lose. Any Black or woman candidate can be a target of bigotry - that is nothing to brag about.
What we need are candidates who can overcome bigotry
Like someone named Hillary Clinton. """""""""" -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Thu, May 15, 2008 - 11:39 AMExcept for the "like Hillary Clinton" and the denigration and singling out of Obama supporters. People on both sides have cried out the gender and race cards.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:12 AM<<Like I said....isn't this just as racist?
I don't think so, I believe it is more about the community believing that Obama is going to be more likely to address their concerns. Sure, some blacks and whites are voting based on racism. But I think that WV has more to do with the fact that lower income and less educated citizens are less likely to have as much access to information so as to dispel rumors such as Obama being a Muslim.
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 2:35 PMyes! your right it is just as bad!
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 2:37 PMyes! your right, it is just as bad!
-
-
-
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 8:11 PMBut ... but ... but ... Obama is the post-racial messiah! What happened? Did he run out of magical post-racial fairy dust? -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 12:07 AMSurprise!!!!
America opens her closet door and gasp,!!!! it's still full of skeletons!!!
Oh Noooo, not in the land of Horatio Alger.
-
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:06 AMFunny that they ignore the huge number of white Obama supporters whose main reason for their support is that he is black, that's a much more interesting story. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:21 AM>> Ricardo: Funny that they ignore the huge number of white Obama supporters whose main reason for their support is that he is black, that's a much more interesting story. <<
It's not really that interesting of a story. It boils down to plain old garden variety liberal white guilt-tripping of the self-imposed variety.
I think there are probably more white liberals who vote for Obama because they have been hypnotized by the Clinton-hating media and/or because they are knee-jerk moveonistas. But all of those white liberals will vote for Clinton in November. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:25 AM<<
I think there are probably more white liberals who vote for Obama because they have been hypnotized by the Clinton-hating media and/or because they are knee-jerk moveonistas.
Or how about just acknowledging that there are very legitimate reasons to vote for both candidates? This us vs. them mentality is what has really been perpetuated by the media, it helps them get ratings. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:42 AM>> Jeff: Or how about just acknowledging that there are very legitimate reasons to vote for both candidates? This us vs. them mentality is what has really been perpetuated by the media, it helps them get ratings. <<
Do you really mean that? Do you think that all those hillbillies in West Virginia had legitimate reasons for voting for Clinton? Or does the indignant "legitimate reasons" routine only apply to people who vote for Obama? -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 12:51 PM<<Do you really mean that? Do you think that all those hillbillies in West Virginia had legitimate reasons for voting for Clinton? Or does the indignant "legitimate reasons" routine only apply to people who vote for Obama?
Of course they had legitimate reasons, as you and I both have acknowledged Obama and Clintons ideas are not that far apart, thus they have legitimate reasons regarding policy to vote for her. That does not change the fact that they have been influenced by swiftboating type bullshit like "I heard Obama is a Muslim", this is born out by the exit polls. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 12:58 PM>> Jeff: That does not change the fact that they have been influenced by swiftboating type bullshit like "I heard Obama is a Muslim", this is born out by the exit polls. <<
Yes, but - the media have been trashing Hillary Clinton since 1992. Obama has nothing on her in this regard. The question is, who can take it and still keep on coming?
-
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 1:09 PM<<Yes, but - the media have been trashing Hillary Clinton since 1992. Obama has nothing on her in this regard. The question is, who can take it and still keep on coming?
That goes both ways, the media has also been giving Hillary tons of free air time and press since 1992 and subsequently voters are familiar with her in addition to her HIGHLY popular ex president husband. Whereas with Obama, he came out of nowhere and is beating one of the most famous faces in the world.
-
-
-
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:51 AM<Or how about just acknowledging that there are very legitimate reasons to vote for both candidates? This us vs. them mentality is what has really been perpetuated by the media, it helps them get ratings.>
How about acknowledging that there isn't any legitmate reason to vote for either candidate? This election is about which form of affirmative action you favor, for blacks or women? Now if we had a black woman as MCCains running mate, this election would be done. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 10:12 AM>> Ricardo: How about acknowledging that there isn't any legitmate reason to vote for either candidate? This election is about which form of affirmative action you favor, for blacks or women? <<
Well, we've have 7+ years of affirmative action for the mentally retarded. It's definitely time to promote a different disadvantaged group to the presidency, in my opinion! -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 10:18 AM<<This election is about which form of affirmative action you favor, for blacks or women?
Ricardo, that is you once again playing the race and gender card. The simple fact is that there are legitimate reason to vote for either candidate and they would be well and above anything the Republicans have produced of late.
-
-
-
-
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:24 AMHow many whites do you think vote for him primarily because he is black? That is the argument that conservatives and Neocons have been making about Obama's success, but I don't buy it. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 9:52 AM<How many whites do you think vote for him primarily because he is black? That is the argument that conservatives and Neocons have been making about Obama's success, but I don't buy it.>
Why then would you vote for him? -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 10:02 AMObama first came to my attention before Obama-Mania when he gave the key note address at the Democratic party convention. I was intrigued by the way he spoke and the things he said, so I began researching the man a bit. It turns out that he was saying the same thigns as me about the Iraq war since before it was popular to do so, he predicted the exact problems we are having with the current quagmire and he did so when it was not popular to speak up about such things. As a veteran I see those kids over there dying for a war of choice as my brothers and sisters, it breaks my heart because of not only what this war has done to our country and our soldiers, but also their families. Beyond that, I researched his grassroots history which was very impressive to me, in addition to the kind of legislation he worked on in the Illinois Senate and the work he has done as a freshman Senator. Couple that with him having the kind of optimism that we see in leaders like FDR and Winston Churchill and it became a no brainer for me.
By the way, I watched a PBS program on FDR the other night, absolutely fascinating stuff. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 10:20 AM>> Jeff: By the way, I watched a PBS program on FDR the other night, absolutely fascinating stuff. <<
I've seen parts of the FDR program - but not for a while. One of the most fascinating things, in my mind, about FDR was his showdown with the Supreme Court during his first term. If we ever get another Democratic president with some gonads I'd like to see a replay of that!
Have you seen the Huey Long documentary by Ken Burns? It was one of his early ones - before he became all famous and all of his documentaries starting sounding the same. Anyway - it is mind blowing. Huey Long was like Hugo Chavez, Bill Clinton, Richard Daley and Al Sharpton all rolled up into one. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 10:21 AMMissed the one on Huey Long......
-
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 2:00 PM<Obama first came to my attention before Obama-Mania when he gave the key note address at the Democratic party convention. I was intrigued by the way he spoke and the things he said, so I began researching the man a bit. It turns out that he was saying the same thigns as me about the Iraq war since before it was popular to do so, he predicted the exact problems we are having with the current quagmire and he did so when it was not popular to speak up about such things.>
I think everyone knew where we were headed, what is Obamas plan for ending the war?
<Beyond that, I researched his grassroots history which was very impressive to me, in addition to the kind of legislation he worked on in the Illinois Senate and the work he has done as a freshman Senator. >
Can you be more specific? What legislation are you impressed with?
<Couple that with him having the kind of optimism that we see in leaders like FDR and Winston Churchill and it became a no brainer for me.
>
Having a culture personality doesn't sway me, it's good reason to hold him suspect. -
-
Re: 2 in 10 whites cite race as voting factor in WV
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 3:02 PM<<I think everyone knew where we were headed, what is Obamas plan for ending the war?
1.) He plans on beginning the process of bringing troops home immediately, having all combat brigades home in 16 months.
2.) He has made it clear that the US will NOT have permanent bases in Iraq and keep just enough troops to protect the US embassy (as is done in other foreign countries.
3.) He will use the US leaving as pressure on the Iraqi leaders to reconcile and to seek a new accord on governance and the Constitution with the UN playing a key role.
4.) He will also launch an agressive regional diplomatic effort that will include Iraq's neighbors in the process, this includes Iran and Syria.
5.) He will address Iraq's humanitarian crisis as it is our obligation in the wake of the mess GW made. This includes expanding aid to the millions of Iraqi refugees in other countries.
www.barackobama.com/issues/p...Sheet.pdf
Answers to your other questions to follow, brb.
-
-
-
-
-
-
