Advertisement

"So Just Don't Fly!"

topic posted Wed, April 18, 2012 - 8:01 AM by  Abraxas
Share/Save/Bookmark
TSA to "Support" Plainclothes Officers, Bag Searches & K9 Patrols on Buses
www.ridemetro.org/News/Rele...32012.aspx

TSA VIPR Teams on Tennessee Highways
www.newschannel5.com/story/1...tatewide

TSA Search Amtrak Trains in Sacramento
blogs.sacbee.com/crime/arc...mtrak.html

Papers, please?
posted by:
Abraxas
SF Bay Area
Advertisement
  • Re: "So Just Don't Fly!"

    Wed, April 18, 2012 - 8:04 AM
    P.S.

    "Omer Petti and Madge Woodward expected the alarms to go off at the airport security's metal detector when they were flying home to Detroit after visiting family recently near San Diego.

    "After all, Petti, who is 95 years old, has two artificial knees and Woodward, at 85, has had her hip replaced. But they sure didn't expect to be subjected to accusations, extreme pat-downs, and most importantly, to be missing $300 in cash."

    Read more: www.detroitnews.com/article/...1sP9Knva0
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: "So Just Don't Fly!"

      Wed, April 18, 2012 - 5:44 PM
      here in Atlanta GA the fare for Marta< (public transporatation ) has gone up from 55 dollars to 100 dollars for a monthly pass in the past 4 years , poor people amd working poor are so angry, there are constant attacks on bus drivers and emplyees of Marta, they have a recording on the speakers on the bus warning patrons to "please dont assault the bus driver" , now if the TSA starts some shit on public transportation, in ATL, where I've know bus drivers who carry a gun on late nite bus routes etc for the last twenty years, well there (tsa), gonna be another statistic.
      • Re: "So Just Don't Fly!"

        Wed, April 18, 2012 - 10:13 PM
        The same insanity is going down in the Detroit area, thanks to the breakdown of the City Governance...
        • Re: "So Just Don't Fly!"

          Wed, April 18, 2012 - 10:15 PM
          Also, I'd take a train to say family in the Boston area however 24 hours is a bit long for me. I have not the patience to deal with the train system at this time.

          As for the Bus (i.e. Greyhound)... forget-a-bout-it?!
    • Re: "So Just Don't Fly!"

      Tue, April 24, 2012 - 11:20 AM
      Weeping four-year-old girl accused of carrying a gun by TSA officers after she hugged her grandmother while passing through security
      -----
      Ms Brademeyer and her two children had passed through security when the grandmother was detained after triggering an alarm on the scanners.

      Isabella then, according to her mother, 'excitedly ran over to give her a hug, as children often do. They made very brief contact, no longer than a few seconds.'

      The young girl was immediately detained by security agents, who apparently shouted at her that she would have to be frisked too, and refused to let her mother explain what has happening.

      Ms Brademeyer wrote: 'It was implied, several times, that my mother, in their brief two-second embrace, had passed a handgun to my daughter.'

      In her terror, Isabella tried to run away rather than face a full body pat-down, which unsurprisingly enraged the TSA officers further.

      One officer even told the girl's mother that the airport would have to be shut down and every flight cancelled if the four-year-old did not co-operate.

      They also apparently described the little girl as a 'high security threat'.

      As Isabella was taken into a side room for a pat-down, accompanied by her mother, she could not stop crying and refused to let the agents touch her.

      An officer repeatedly said she had 'seen a gun in a teddy bear' in the past, in an apparent attempt to justify the situation.

      Ms Brademeyer continued: 'The TSO loomed over my daughter, with an angry grimace on her face, and ordered her to stop crying.

      'When my scared child could not do so, two TSOs called for backup saying, "The suspect is not cooperating." The suspect, of course, being a frightened child. They treated my daughter no better than if she had been a terrorist.'

      Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...1sz1PKToJ
      • Re: "So Just Don't Fly!"

        Tue, April 24, 2012 - 9:50 PM
        <Ms Brademeyer wrote: 'It was implied, several times, that my mother, in their brief two-second embrace, had passed a handgun to my daughter.'>

        Seems more likely that they COULD HAVE implied this.

        I have been traveling a lot recently, and there are so many TSA people about, that surely, with the tens of thousands...no, hundreds of thousands of people traveling every day, that surely there will be situations like this one.

        Again, as to the child & grandmother, is it impossible to imagine that this COULD happen? Anything that is possible HAS to be considered, and...moreso, they cannot let this one person off, because when it happens to someone else, they'll be be accused of bias. So, they have to treat everyone 100% the same. I find it - ridiculous, maybe - but reasonable.
        • Re: "So Just Don't Fly!"

          Fri, April 27, 2012 - 11:48 AM
          >>Seems more likely that they COULD HAVE implied this.

          Well, they "could have" also offered the grandmother a back massage and a complimentary mint. But that's not what happened.

          >>with the tens of thousands...no, hundreds of thousands of people traveling every day

          Closer to 2 million. ;-)

          >>that surely there will be situations like this one.

          Situtations in which underqualified and overzealous TSA agents needlessly harass innocent travellers, calling 4-year-olds "high security threats" and refering to them as "suspects" (how can one be a "suspect" if there is no crime? oh that's right, at the airport, you're guilty until proven innocent)? Undoubtedly. Do we really want that expanded to the nation's highways and railways? Is that the nation in which we want to live?

          >>Again, as to the child & grandmother, is it impossible to imagine that this COULD happen? Anything that is possible HAS to be considered,

          So you'd be okay with random cavity searches? Where do we draw the line?

          Whether or not something is within the universal realm of possibility, and whether or not there is actually any kind of realistic expectation of that possibility, are two very different issues.

          NSC Study Shows You are More Likely to Killed By a Cop Than a Terrorist
          newsblaze.com/story/20090...opstory.html

          The TSA has not caught one single "terrorist." Where is there another case of a grandmother passing a gun to a 4-year-old... or *anyone* passing a gun to a child in an airport?

          There are a number of ways to get contraband onto a commercial flight that pose far less risk to the perpetrator than trying to smuggle something through a checkpoint. One could take a private flight from another airport, bypassing security, and then transfer to a commercial flight. One could enlist or bribe a TSA or airport employee (see drug smuggling article in this thread) to pass something around the normal security checkpoints.

          >>So, they have to treat everyone 100% the same.

          Yet these types of articles are usually about children and the elderly being harassed... or sometimes hot chicks being sent back through the porno-scanners... so everyone is not being treated 100% the same.

          This is a farce... security theater designed to condition travellers to being treated like cattle, like criminals... guilty until proven innocent.

          P.S. Huh... quicker than I thought... must have mis-remembered the content.
          • Re: "So Just Don't Fly!"

            Fri, April 27, 2012 - 7:15 PM
            <Situtations in which underqualified and overzealous TSA agents needlessly harass innocent travellers, calling 4-year-olds "high security threats" and refering to them as "suspects" (how can one be a "suspect" if there is no crime?>

            Well, I'd rather not get into a semantic argument, but I bet that use of the word "suspects" is just their phraseology for anyone with whom they involve themselves. And, it's not impossible that a terrorist would use a 4yr old kid. It's happened in other places in the world. NOW - please don't confuse that bit of fact with my saying that I agree with this practice. I'm just stating that it is possible, thus - they probably HAVE to involve themselves as policies & procedures demand. So, since this issue is a woman that was being checked, and then a child ran up to her, at which point probably (and, I'm guessing), the policy is to check ANYONE that touched that person (fear of them handing something off, etc.), then that may have necessitated checking that person, also...which brought us to the point that the kid was ...uh...special. So...thus...we're in this mess.

            "underqualified and overzealous TSA agents" is probably the case. Yes. Wrong? No. But, they could have handled it better, probably.

            <So you'd be okay with random cavity searches? Where do we draw the line?>

            No, but that's a different story. And, I am betting that they have a line, too - such as, they can't demand "random cavity searches".

            <NSC Study Shows You are More Likely to Killed By a Cop Than a Terrorist>

            Sure, but our national defenses are not defined by probability of harm, but by the fact that harm should be avoided.

            <The TSA has not caught one single "terrorist." Where is there another case of a grandmother passing a gun to a 4-year-old... or *anyone* passing a gun to a child in an airport?>

            Again, I am not the person to defend this action. I don't think though - and this is my opinion - that anything that we do should be dependent upon letting it happen first, and then planning for how to fix the situation that resulted in the problem.

            <Yet these types of articles are usually about children and the elderly being harassed...>

            Yeah. Better press. Same as the Trayvon issue. There have been tons of stories about OTHER people being killed - same general issue, but not as 'interesting' of a story. Thus...we hear about the children & elderly.

            <or sometimes hot chicks being sent back through the porno-scanners... so everyone is not being treated 100% the same.>

            We know that they are SUPPOSED to be treated 100% the same - these stories happen when a) they scan some "hot chicks being sent back through the porno-scanners" or b) when their policies are followed 100%, yet it's a good story for fodder.

            <This is a farce... security theater designed to condition travellers to being treated like cattle, like criminals... guilty until proven innocent.>

            The problem - while I agree with you - is that what other option do we have? We HAVE to make it more difficult to bring on a shoe or underwear bomb on a plane.

            <Aside from the articles, this is also my experience in travelling (of which I do a fair amount) and observing checkpoints myself.>

            As do I and my counterparts. I often hear of silly stories related to some kind of overzealous TSA agent.
        • Re: "So Just Don't Fly!"

          Fri, April 27, 2012 - 11:55 AM
          P.S. "Yet these types of articles are usually about children and the elderly being harassed... or sometimes hot chicks being sent back through the porno-scanners... so everyone is not being treated 100% the same."

          Aside from the articles, this is also my experience in travelling (of which I do a fair amount) and observing checkpoints myself.
  • Re: "So Just Don't Fly!"

    Wed, April 25, 2012 - 7:24 AM
    from the first link

    www.ridemetro.org/News/Rele...32012.aspx

    CORRECTION: Although random bag checks were suggested at a planning meeting and mentioned in the press release, Chief Rodriguez decided before the operation to not employ this strategy.

    ___________________________________________________

    Looks like the gestapo won't be on every street corner asking to see your papers just yet
    • Re: "So Just Don't Fly!"

      Fri, April 27, 2012 - 9:47 AM
      >>Looks like the gestapo won't be on every street corner asking to see your papers just yet

      Whew... well, thank goodness for their "correction."

      -----

      Bennett's concern started when he saw a METRO blog saying that TSA and METRO did random warrant-less bag checks of bus riders. METRO now says they didn't do that.

      "We did zero random bag checks," Rodriguez said.

      "I don't believe they didn't do any searches. The reason I don't believe it is before the operation, they announced there were going to be random bag checks. And after the investigation, they announced in their official blog that there had been bag checks," Bennett said.

      If it was wrong, METRO had time to correct it. The blog posted three days after the operation was over and it was still there this Friday -- a week later when we asked the chief about it.

      "It's still there? Oh, I did not realize that," Rodriguez said.

      It was corrected minutes later.

      Regardless of what happened last week, Rodriguez said will continue in the very near future and when they do, he maintains he does have the right to search your bag and may tell his officers to do it.
      abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story

      -----

      Also, they even admit: "The agency later corrected that statement and said its officers only search bags based on probable cause or with a rider's consent."
      www.chron.com/news/housto...-3514008.php

      So they say that they searched bags with "rider's consent," yet they say there were no random searches. So what, did they go on the bus and say "Good morning everyone, would anyone here like to consent to a bag search?" Otherwise how would they get "rider's consent?" So either they asked *everyone* if they could search their bags (which I find somewhat unlikely, but I suppose possible), or they only asked particular individuals, and then only searched upon receipt of consent... but how were those particular individuals selected? Either they asked everyone, or they "randomly" selected riders to ask (or they engaged in some form of profiling).

      -----

      "There was never an intention to do bag searches," METRO President and Chairman George Grenias said.
      abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story

      There was "never an intention?" What a load of bullshit. It was stated plainly in your press release and on your blog (even after the exercise, until it was "corrected"). And you even admit that there were searches "with a rider's consent."

      -----

      As one commenter on the Metro blog wrote:

      “We will only conduct bag checks based on probable cause/consent in our operations, until further notice,”

      Translation:

      TSA: "We'd like to search your bag."

      Victim: "No."

      TSA: "Sorry, saying 'no' is probable cause. Now gimme the bag."

      -----

      Also, from attorney Mark Bennett's post on the operation, which questioned the veracity of the Metro's "eight felony arrests" claim:

      "METRO had 81 officers working on this operation, which lasted eight hours last Friday. That's 648 cop-hours, for an average of more than 46 cop-hours per arrest. Plus dogs. I'm no cop, but forty-six hours doesn't seem like a reasonable investment of police time in a misdemeanor POM arrest, even if it includes donut breaks."
      blog.bennettandbennett.com/2012....html

      -----

      And finally, a correction:

      "If the Metro blog is to be believed, it looks like the gestapo won't be on every street corner asking to search your bag without applying their loose definition of "probable cause" JUST YET, but they will be there to otherwise surveil and interrogate commuters and bust perpetrators of victimless misdemeanors at a significantly higher cost in dollars and legal jurisdiction than appropriate local police work (and yeah, probably conducting random bag searches)."

      -----

      P.S.

      Family Misses Flight After TSA Gives Pat-Down To 7-Year-Old Girl With Cerebral Palsy

      Dina, who is also reportedly developmentally disabled, is usually frightened by the procedure. Her family reportedly requests that agents on hand take the time to introduce themselves to her.

      However, the agents on duty at the time began to handle her aggressively instead.

      Air travel is difficult to the family due to Dina’s disabilities, but the nature of Monday’s inspection was especially traumatic for the child.
      washington.cbslocal.com/2012/0..._thread


      Marcy Frank usually asks the agents to introduce themselves to her daughter, but those on duty on Monday were exceptionally aggressive, Joshua Frank said, and he began to videotape them with his iPhone.

      “And the woman started screaming at me and cursing me and threatening me,” he said.

      Eventually, a supervisor decided it was sufficient to inspect Dina’s crutches and allowed the family to leave for the gate.

      They were there for an hour before the agents reappeared with a manager to tell them that proper protocol had not been followed, and that Dina had to be screened after all, the Franks said. After initially offering to pat her down at the gate, they insisted she return to the security area, Joshua Frank said.
      www.thedaily.com/page/2012...laint-1-3/

      -----

      P.P.S.

      TSA screeners allegedly let drug-filled luggage through LAX for cash

      Four current and former Transportation Security Administration screeners have been arrested and face charges of taking bribes and looking the other way while suitcases filled with cocaine, methamphetamine or marijuana passed through X-ray machines at Los Angeles International Airport, federal authorities announced Wednesday.

      The TSA screeners, who were arrested Tuesday night and Wednesday morning, allegedly received up to $2,400 in cash bribes in exchange for allowing large drug shipments to pass through checkpoints in what the U.S. attorney in Los Angeles called a “significant breakdown” of security.
      latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow...t.html