Obama's supporters presume that Bush's stupid remarks to the Israeli Knesset were somehow personally directed at their "presumptive" nominee.
Get a clue. Solipsism really is a lousy way of interacting with the universe. Bush's remarks were aimed at everyone who doesn't fall in line with his cowboy mentality (apologies to all real cowboys everywhere).
Get a clue. Solipsism really is a lousy way of interacting with the universe. Bush's remarks were aimed at everyone who doesn't fall in line with his cowboy mentality (apologies to all real cowboys everywhere).
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 6:41 AMcornel please do not crawl in to bed with Dana Perino you might get fleas. . . or crabs -
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 6:43 AMwww.youtube.com/watch
it was pretty clear to one right wing wackadoodle who the comments were directed at. . . -
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 8:35 AM<it was pretty clear to one right wing wackadoodle who the comments were directed >
well, good job matthews challenging the republicans framing and uncovring their baseless assertions.
-
-
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 6:54 AMCornel continues to spiral downward. Defending Bush's remarks now? Really? -
-
It is not about Cornel
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 7:03 AMBush has used this straw man "some people" rhetorical technique for seven years to rationalize spying on Americans, torture, etc. I ended up on a list that makes it more difficult to fly because of a post I made on the net advocating of torturing Alberto Gonzales. The administrations abuse of power and going around presidential protocol is very real. I have had just about enough of this fucker and I hate "some people" straw man arguments---I was very pleased to see him get called on his bullshit remarks--Its not about Cornel its not about Clinton (she said she would not talk) then through the process of elimination who is it about?
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 8:50 AM>> Jordan: Defending Bush's remarks now? Really? <<
This is recursive solipsism, which can be quite dangerous according to some of the newer string theory calculations. Watch out - you might accidentally open a wormhole that could suck you back into consensual reality. The shock might kill you. -
-
Oh yes it is now about Obama....
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 8:54 AMPot meet Kettle Cornel ------the same shock awaits you once you face up to the notion about Hillary NOT being the Democratic nominee in 2008. -
-
Re: Oh yes it is now about Obama....
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 10:02 AM>> the same shock awaits you once you face up to the notion about Hillary NOT being the Democratic nominee in 2008. <<
That remains to be seen for those of us who prefer a reality-based approach. There is no doubt that he has a lead - about the same lead he has had since mid-February.
Has Obama himself stated that he is the nominee? That is usually one good sign. Even he is smart enough to wait until he actually has something concrete in the works - at least so far he seems to be that smart. As long as it is hust his drooling devotees (including the media) jumping up and down proclaiming him to be the Dear Leader - exactly as they have been doing since January - that is nothing new. -
-
Re: Oh yes it is now about Obama....
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 10:21 AM>> about the same lead he has had since mid-February <<
[snicker]
-
-
-
-
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 7:26 AM"The president did not name Obama or any other Democrat, but White House aides privately acknowledged the remarks were aimed at the presidential candidate and others in his party."
politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/200...sts/
-
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 7:28 AMthats the bullshit "some people" technique it provides rhetorical wiggle room
-
-
Re: it's not all about cluelessness
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 8:24 AM<Get a clue. Solipsism really is a lousy way of interacting with the universe>
so is cluelessness.
-
Re: a new way to type "obama" and have other people see it?
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 10:26 AMu luv him
nananibubu -
-
Re: a new way to type "obama" and have other people see it?
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 10:28 AMspelled backwards is. . .
ububinanan. . .
okay, that settles it. . .i'm going back to sleep!
-
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 10:40 AMI don't agree with everything Bush says, but he was dead on right with this.
First of all he wasn't attacking anyone, Obama, and the Democrats are way too thin skinned if they think he was giving any personal political attacks. I got exactly what Bush was saying in his speech, in so many words he said "never again" Bush never mentioned anyone by name, and he just said American senators, and at first I thought it was going to be aimed towards that idiot Carter, but it was aimed at nobody, but this just shows you how guilty they feel, because History has shown that negotiation with men who have such evil and hatred in their hearts, has, and will always fail, and appeasement only brings false peace, which is worse than war.
I'm all for diplomacy before war, I've seen war, its horrible, but I also understand that there are some people you can negotiate with, and work something out and make things better without bombs and guns, and some people you cannot.
If this were Russia, China, Venezuela, or North Korea acting up, we could most definitely, probably have talks and negotiate with them, and work shite out, but these Islamic nut bags, are in the same boat as the Nazis, fascist Japan, and fascist Italy at the time, they were driven by something much much larger than politics, politics mean/meant nothing to these people. and these Islamic nut bags, are heavily backed by god in their minds and eye, so what are the words of a man, who isn't even of their faith going to heal? Not a damn thing.
I'm not saying we shouldn't have tried to negotiate with them, as I said thats how it should always be done first, but anyone who thinks anyone is going to change the hearts and minds of those people, are sadly mistaken, and foolish. The world has dealt with people involved in a religious sect before, this we face today is nothing new. You do not negotiate, appease, or treat people of this nature in a light hearted way, you just plain and simply destroy them, cause they're not gonna stop, because in their minds, if they give up, if they listen to the words of those who call for peace, then they are not obeying god, and will be destroyed, or not make it into their heaven. This is the way people like this have been fought in the past, today sad to say in some ways, the world is way too political and pussified to do what it is they should.
I got the point with what Bush was saying about Hitler. When Hitler was making his speeches, and ranting, and raving, there were people who said "we need to get rid of this guy, before he becomes a problem" and people took it lightly, didn't expect, or even could have imagined for him to do as he did, men like Churchill were called warmongers, stupid, and other such names, he was pretty hated he was also part American so that added more to people disliking him.
Chamberlain did the whole negotiation thing with him, and everyone looked nice, and friendly but what did Hitler do, when Chamberlain basically gave up Czechoslovakia to Hitler, which worked out with Hitler's plans very very well (he actually wrote about that), Americans sat back saying this was Europe's problem, and we shouldn't nor need to get involved, bad move, men like Hitler is no one country's problem, they are always the world's problem, and the world should always stand against men like this. Today, the wars are fought quite differently, they are more dangerous cause right now we're not fighting soldiers in a specific uniform, we're fighting religious extremist, who use different tactics in warfare, but the hearts and minds are still the same of the evil in the past.
When I were younger, and I really studied about Hitler and all, I learned that no amount of talking would ever change that man's view of how things should be, based on what he believed in, and strongly too. Hitler was heavily into the occult, Nazism was basically a religion to him, he created a whole mythology of it, believed that the Aryans were the offspring of fallen angels who mated with human women, that stuff actually is in the bible, which is where the nephlins come from, but that's another topic,. He believed his view of Germany was the divine race, and destined to rule the world, the Japanese too believed that they were some divine race. You cannot sit down with men like this, and expect any good to come from the talks, we've tried to negotiate with Iran, and it has failed many times, and I'm not one bit surprised at all, because of where that country wants to be, and what they want. Its not the president of Iran who has the real power, so talking to him will solve nothing, even if he agrees with whoever speaks to him, its the clerics the religious leaders who have the power, and what they want, what the president of Iran wants (because we don't know if he TRULY believes in this stuff), and what we want, are way different.
A lot of people due to the fact that so many these days are way too political, don't understand the true nature of the people, we face today. Men like Hitler, and the terrorist we face today, come straight out of a comic book, or video game, they are so in your face evil. There's nothing complicated about the situation, the people who look at it in a political way, when in fact, it has nothing to do with politics, make it complicated for themselves, and others who don't really understand it. I'd like one person to explain to me, how a diplomatic chit chat is going to change the hearts and minds of a group of people, who believe some spiritual leader, a 13th emam, is due to return the earth, and help them destroy all non believers, they believe that his one thousand year return is very close, and by causing a lot of chaos and destruction, will bring about their apocalypse, which of course would bring in this emam, whether we invaded Iraq, or not, we'd still be seeing the growing violence of these people. -
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 12:54 PM<<but these Islamic nut bags, are in the same boat as the Nazis, fascist Japan, and fascist Italy at the time
Actually you could not be further from the truth Aiden. When is the last time Iran invaded any country? You most certainly won't find an instance in modern history. Is Iran an Theocratic Democracy where they elect their president? Why yes it is. Have they egnaged in the wholesale extermination of any minority group in their country? No they have not, and in reality they are one of the more tolerant countries when it comes to freedom of religion. Why would we have talks with a Dictatorship like North Korea and refuse to talk with a Democracy like Iran?
The problem is that your opinion about Iran is not formed by observation or study, it is formed by the propaganda coming from Bush and the Neocons comparing them to Nazis when in reality they have almost nothing in common with them.
<<I'm not saying we shouldn't have tried to negotiate with them, as I said thats how it should always be done first, but anyone who thinks anyone is going to change the hearts and minds of those people, are sadly mistaken, and foolish.
I find it interesting that you use terms like "those people" as if Iranians are a disgusting culture. When the reality of the situation is that they are very western in nature and share a love of Blue Jeans and American Idol just like us.
<<Chamberlain did the whole negotiation thing with him, and everyone looked nice, and friendly but what did Hitler do, when Chamberlain basically gave up Czechoslovakia to Hitler
What chamberlain engaged in was actual appeasement, a form of surrender. What Obama is proposing is nothing of the sort. Appeasement is not the same thing as negotiations and talks. Sitting down and talking tough with other countries does NOT mean you are going to capitulate nor does it mean you will be tempted to capitulate to their demands
In addition Aiden, remember that a large part of the debateable success we are currently having in Iraq is because our military leaders sat down with what you are calling Islamic extremists......had talks and negotiations....and got those groups to switch sides and fight against the insurgency.
<<they believe that his one thousand year return is very close, and by causing a lot of chaos and destruction, will bring about their apocalypse
Bush and his born again Christian Buddies believe the same thing about the second coming of christ. How are the fundamentalist christians that have this belief different thant he fundamentalist Islamic extremists? -
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 1:36 PMRight, we invade 2 nations in the region in 5 years timespan, we threaten to regime-change Iran, and the "islamic nutbags" are a menace - to US.
Riiiiiight.
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 2:48 PM>> Jeff: in reality they are one of the more tolerant countries when it comes to freedom of religion <<
This is one of the really crazy things that 99.9% of Americans seem to have no clue about. Don't get me wrong - I am no fan of the Ayatollahs and I would not like to find out how long I would last in Iran - but everything really IS relative. If you compare the Ayatollahs in Iran - along with their Shia counterparts in Iraq and Lebanon, on the one hand, to their Sunni, Wahabi counterparts in Saudi Arabia (our great wonderful allies), on th eother hand - it is like comparing Dennis Kucinich on MDMA to Dick Cheney on Brown Acid.
In Iran women run for and hold political office. In Saudi Arabia THEY CAN'T FUCKING DRIVE A CAR. Iran is by far the most democratic country in the entire middle east - and they have a much larger spectrum of political ideas discussed openly in their mainstream society and news media - THAN WE DO IN THE US.
The Iranians committed the ultimate sin, though - they took on the United States and they won. They seized the US embassy in Tehran and took all of it's employees hostage and DARED the United States to do anything about it! They held daily rallies in front of the embassy where people burned american flags and held up hand written signs in English that they pushed in front of TV cameras from all over world proclaiming "THE US CANNOT DO ANYTHING".
I do not condone hostage taking - but compared to what the US does to people in Guantanamo, Bagram Air Base, Abu Ghraib - or the average county jail fo the matter, the hostages were treated very well and they were all released after 444 days. And the Iranians got away with it! That kind of thing is remembered for a long time - by everyone.
And the Iranians had good reason for what they did. The United States overthrew their democratically elected government in 1953 - and that was organized out of the US embassy by US embassy personell. The Iranians remembered THAT just like the US remembers what the Iranians did in '79 to get us back. Although no one will say it out loud, the Iranians know that we are "even" now - but when you are the world's only superpower you don't take kindly to any ever getting even with you.
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 3:06 PM>> Is Iran an Theocratic Democracy where they elect their president? Why yes it is. <<
sure. after disqualifying any and all candidates that are not aligned with the moderate and progressive parties.
I actually side with Obama on this one. nothing is lost if you open diplomatic channels with Iran. but that doesn't mean you need to overstate the merits of the current Iranian regime.
>> When the reality of the situation is that they are very western in nature and share a love of Blue Jeans and American Idol just like us. <<
yeah. that is the reality of the average citizen. but the current regime doesn't represent the average Iranian citizen. -
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 3:11 PMI love the concern for Iran. I mean, we've got our battleships right off their coast, Cheney is making threats ON a battleship, we're threatening to regime-change them, etc. And we are occupying Iraq and Afghanistan which are both right next door to Iran, and our occupation has set off a bloody multi-party civil war slash insurgency in both nations.
What I can't understand is why can't Iran quit threatening the US? Don't they understand we just want peace?
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 5:04 PMI did not overstate anything, I simply did not go in to the details of their process. The simple fact is that they are much more democratic than most nations in the region, in addition to being much more democratic than other countries like North Korea that we do have talks with.
>>yeah. that is the reality of the average citizen. but the current regime doesn't represent the average Iranian citizen.
I did not say that they did. He was denigrating them all as crazy Islamic fundamentalists and I was pointing out that this is just not the case. -
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 5:27 PMI agree Cornel. Poor Bush just cant catch a break with the media. -
-
Re: it's not all about obama
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 10:14 PMYes its a crying shame, considering the bang-up job he's done.
-
-
-
-
-
