What has Obama pandered?

topic posted Mon, May 5, 2008 - 11:12 PM by 
I am sure he has pandered plenty, but I want examples. I really want to know who is the least pandering out of the 3.

And pandering "hope" does not count. I mean, what idea has (s)he promoted that makes no real sense to better the nation, but may win votes?

-troy
posted by:
  • Re: What has Obama pandered?

    Tue, May 6, 2008 - 9:51 AM
    <I am sure he has pandered plenty, but I want examples. I really want to know who is the least pandering out of the 3. >

    barack obama shamelessly panders to people's desire for a change in how their government operates and their hope that such change can be effected. as that includes 99.9% of all democrats and liberals, he panders the most.
    • Re: What has Obama pandered?

      Tue, May 6, 2008 - 10:00 AM
      Yes, how DARE he talk about hope? American sheep should NEVER be encouraged to get excited about positive change! And Democrats are supposed to be blue-blooded and boring!
    • Re: What has Obama pandered?

      Tue, May 6, 2008 - 10:07 AM
      <barack obama shamelessly panders to people's desire for a change in how their government operates and their hope that such change can be effected. as that includes 99.9% of all democrats and liberals, he panders the most.
      >

      Theres a difference between pandering and exploiting, when your exploiting your using empty rehtoric without promising anything substancial. How is Obama's "YES WE CAN" any different then Bushes "YES AMERICAN CAN" campain?
      • Re: What has Obama pandered?

        Tue, May 6, 2008 - 10:47 AM
        <Theres a difference between pandering and exploiting, when your exploiting your using empty rehtoric without promising anything substancial. How is Obama's "YES WE CAN" any different then Bushes "YES AMERICAN CAN" campain? >

        bush's - yes america can = yes i (bush) can.
        obama's - yes we can = yes the american people can.

        yes, i am aware this is an incredibly difficult concept to master in the empirical light of bush's record.

    • Re: What has Obama pandered?

      Tue, May 6, 2008 - 10:19 AM
      Israel, unions, religions conservatives, the middle class
      • Re: What has Obama pandered?

        Tue, May 6, 2008 - 10:23 AM
        I think it's a sneaky form of pandering to accuse McCain & Hillary of pandering on their gas tax holiday when he voted for it three times when he was in Illinois.
        • Re: What has Obama pandered?

          Tue, May 6, 2008 - 10:28 AM

          And he said in Illinois it didn't work. He has learned.

          I just said that "Pandering Hope" doesn't count!

          I mean, do you hear yourself? You are saying that a president should not be inspiring.

          -troy
        • Re: What has Obama pandered?

          Tue, May 6, 2008 - 10:30 AM
          Well as i mentioned above he did vote for it. But that is not the same as pandering.

          "Israel, unions, religions conservatives, the middle class."

          I think he panders to pretty much everyone. His ability to have reason on issues that are so incredibly polarizing is what impresses me. While i like some of his liberal views, he still is able to be conservative. His plan for Health care is one that appeases the liberals, while it wont drive the fiscal conservatives nuts like universal health care. That is why the Republicans want to run against Hillary, she is polarizing and unable to compromise.
  • Re: What has Obama pandered?

    Tue, May 6, 2008 - 11:10 AM
    <<I mean, what idea has (s)he promoted that makes no real sense to better the nation, but may win votes?

    That does not fit the definition of pandering.

    In politics, pandering is to portray one's views to fit in line with a certain crowd of voters the candidate is attempting to impress, when often, these are not the candidate's true beliefs.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandering

    It has to be something that is done to impress when often it is not the candidates true belief.
  • Re: What has Obama pandered?

    Tue, May 6, 2008 - 11:31 AM
    Can someone explain why "pandering" is bad - I know Tim Russert and the rest of the pundit class _say_ its bad. But why is acceding to public opinion such an evil thing?

    The concept of "pandering" assumes there is one, correct policy that politicians should choose on most/all public policy issues, which is, of course, absurd. The vast majority of policy decisions are going to help certain constituencies and harm others. Its fascist to pretend theres one true path to follow, and that listening to public opinion is a bad thing.

    That said, the gas tax holiday idea is one of the dumbest fucking things ever since when the demand curve is way up relative to supply, taxes like the gas tax are paid by producers not consumers. It comes straight out of oil companies' pockets and repealing it doesn't do anything to hep consumers.
    • Re: What has Obama pandered?

      Tue, May 6, 2008 - 1:02 PM
      I don't think pandering is that bad considering it is a necessary evil - except when it results in favors owed.
      • Re: What has Obama pandered?

        Tue, May 6, 2008 - 1:23 PM
        Favors owed is what politics is about. Why support a candidate if they're not going to follow through on something you want to happen while they are in office? Thats how corporations and the rich do it. Its just the silly braindead middle class who have been trained to focus on irrelevant personality driven issues instead of what the candidate will actually do in office.
        • Re: What has Obama pandered?

          Tue, May 6, 2008 - 1:57 PM
          Seems everyone is having a hard time coming up with an example of what Obama has pandered.

          I wonder why?

          Though, Hillary has been going to town with the Panders and lies.



          And getting away with it just like the Bush cronies.

          There's more stupid people in this world than smart and she has proven she knows how to find suckers and use them.

          More than 200 economists say McCain-Clinton gas tax ideas wont work.
          • Re: What has Obama pandered?

            Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:03 PM
            The gas tax thing is a bandaid, it does nothing to actually address the problem.
            • Re: What has Obama pandered?

              Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:27 PM
              Gas tax holiday is an idiotic issue.

              Anyway thats why I enjoy not watching tv or paying attention to the political media. Stick to real news.
              • Re: What has Obama pandered?

                Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:39 PM
                Hillary is the pander candidate. She changed her views on many issues when she started to run for the Senate and even more so when she started to run for President. She will say whatever she thinks will get her elected. Not to say any candidate is much different. But i do think Hillary as President would listen to what the people as a majority want for the most part.
          • Re: What has Obama pandered?

            Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:50 PM
            "Seems everyone is having a hard time coming up with an example of what Obama has pandered. "

            It was a loaded question in the first place. I think Obama panders just as much a anyone else. Give examples backed up with facts of how Hillary or McCain pander? It is all perspective, some people can do no wrong, depending on who is listening.
            In my opinion, McCain is the one who doesn't pander. He doesn't concerns himself with things like polishing his image, smooth speeches, or telling people only what they want to hear. For all the criticisms that can be made against him, I respect him for his honestly.
            • Re: What has Obama pandered?

              Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:55 PM
              <<Give examples backed up with facts of how Hillary or McCain pander? It is all perspective, some people can do no wrong, depending on who is listening.
              In my opinion, McCain is the one who doesn't pander.

              McCain voting against the Bush Tax Cuts and now indicating that they should be permanent is the EXACT definition of pandering. How about speaking out against Jerry falwell in the past and now actively sought his endorsement? See this photo.... graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...well.jpg This is the EXACT definitiion of pandering. And that is just off the top of my head. Name two for Obama off the top of your head.....if you can.
              • Re: What has Obama pandered?

                Tue, May 6, 2008 - 4:21 PM
                "McCain voting against the Bush Tax Cuts and now indicating that they should be permanent is the EXACT definition of pandering."

                You say pandering, I say it's ok to change positions based on changing times and environments.


                You could debate whether these things about Obama are pandering or not:

                The fact that he voted twice for unconditional funding and against against an amendment by Feingold and Kerry for an Iraq timetable. It was only after Obama formed his presidential exploratory committee, that he introduced legislation setting a date for troop withdrawal. And it was only in the last few years that he began voting against unconditional funding for the war. Yet he loves to point out his pre-senate anti war speech, like he never went along with anything like everyone else. - Seems like arm chair quarterback pandering to the anti-war crowd.
                He promised to repeal the Patriot Act - more pandering to anti-Bush crowd. - Then voted in favor of it later.
                Supported single payer health care and is now against it.
                His speech about racism, when he has made race based decisions in the past.
                The whole Oprah thing smelled like pandering to blacks and women.

                • Re: What has Obama pandered?

                  Tue, May 6, 2008 - 5:37 PM
                  >You say pandering, I say it's ok to change positions based on changing times and environments.

                  Yes and theres no better time for more tax cuts than when the dollar is sinking, foreign investors are refusing to buy more long term debt from the treasury, and Uncle Sam is swimming in red ink.

                  BTW you interested in buying a slightly used bridge in Minneapolis? its a steal.
                • Re: What has Obama pandered?

                  Tue, May 6, 2008 - 5:56 PM
                  <<You say pandering, I say it's ok to change positions based on changing times and environments.

                  And what exactly changed from when he voted to now? He voted against it because it did not give enough relief to working Americans who are struggling and because of the lack of restraint in spending. The govt. still has not restrained spending, and the working class are hurting even more....... Here is the video to prove it. www.youtube.com/watch

                  The only change is that the economy is in a shambles, Bush's tax cuts are a failure.... So what changed that now makes the tax cuts a good idea? Please be specific.

                  <<The fact that he voted twice for unconditional funding and against against an amendment by Feingold and Kerry for an Iraq timetable. It was only after Obama formed his presidential exploratory committee, that he introduced legislation setting a date for troop withdrawal.

                  Obama has been consistent from the beginning, he came out against the Iraq war when he was still in the US senate. There is a distinct difference between being against the US govt. policy of waging war in Iraq and providing funding to ensure that US troops have body armor so that they come home safe. One CAN be against the war and support the troops at the same time and it is not pandering.

                  <<His speech about racism, when he has made race based decisions in the past.

                  What race based decision did he make in the past? You do understand that a race based decision is not the same as racism don't you?

                  <<The whole Oprah thing smelled like pandering to blacks and women.

                  Wrong, you are using the term Pander incorrectly here. Look at the wikipedia definition.

                  <<He promised to repeal the Patriot Act - more pandering to anti-Bush crowd. - Then voted in favor of it later.

                  That is actually incorrect. Obama has has Consistently said he would support a patriot act that would strengthen civil liberties without sacrificing the tools that law enforcement needs to keep us safe. You have to understand that the way legislation works is that there are multiple versions that are debated, being against one version does not mean you are going to vote against the final version. What he voted for was NOT what the white house originally proposed. And that is why he joined the fillibuster to block Bush's version.

                  <<Supported single payer health care and is now against it.

                  Obama has consistently said that If we were starting from scratch, he would support a single payer system, but now we need to build on the system we have.
                  www.newyorker.com/reporting...cfarquhar/
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: What has Obama pandered?

                    Wed, May 7, 2008 - 12:49 AM
                    On Bush's 2001 and 2003 tax-cuts:
                    "I cannot in good conscience support a tax cut in which so many of the benefits go to the most fortunate among us at the expense of middle-class Americans who need tax relief."
                    In 2006 he said he changed because he said he was wrong and tax revenues did increase
                    www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm The Bush tax cuts wern't a failure. The housing market collapse, rising CPI, and weakening dollar have nothing to do with his tax policy.
                    I'd much rather have a president that flip-flops then one who chases fail policies.
                    The other fact is that raising taxes in a recession just worsens the downturn, as history has shown.

                    "Obama has been consistent from the beginning, he came out against the Iraq war when he was still in the US senate. There is a distinct difference between being against the US govt. policy of waging war in Iraq and providing funding to ensure that US troops have body armor so that they come home safe. One CAN be against the war and support the troops at the same time and it is not pandering."

                    I think it is pandering when he voted against setting a time table the first time but does it when it is political expedient for him to do so.

                    "What race based decision did he make in the past? You do understand that a race based decision is not the same as racism don't you?"

                    1. Calls for more affirmative action when at the same time calling to erase racial divides
                    2. He and his campaign have tried to play the race card more then once poligazette.com/2008/01/13...ake-racism/













                    • Re: What has Obama pandered?

                      Wed, May 7, 2008 - 10:09 AM
                      <<"I cannot in good conscience support a tax cut in which so many of the benefits go to the most fortunate among us at the expense of middle-class Americans who need tax relief."

                      In 2006 he said he changed because he said he was wrong and tax revenues did increase >>

                      The reason he gave for voting against it is completely different than his reason for saying he is now wrong. Increasing tax revenue does absolutely nothing to benefit middle class Americans and thus most of the benefits STILL go to the most fortunate among us. If you are going to Pander, at the very least make your reason for changing your vote be something that has to do with your original reasons for voting against it.

                      <<I'd much rather have a president that flip-flops then one who chases fail policies.

                      Thus you admit he is pandering.

                      <<The other fact is that raising taxes in a recession just worsens the downturn, as history has shown.

                      G Bush Sr. raised taxes on the rich during a recession, that move helped pull us out of recession and kicked of the prosperity of the Clinton years. In reality, Reagan left a real mess for Bush Sr. to clean up. Bush Sr. basically saved Reagan's legacy, if he had not raised taxes and cut spending to get us out of that recession, Reagan's economic legacy would have been much different.

                      <<I think it is pandering when he voted against setting a time table the first time but does it when it is political expedient for him to do so.

                      You are confused, Obama voted against a funding bill that DID NOT have a timetable for withrawing. He later introduced his own bill that did have a timetable. He has been consistent on the timetable issue from the start.

                      <<1. Calls for more affirmative action when at the same time calling to erase racial divides

                      When did he call for MORE affirmative action? You are confusing Geraldine Ferraro calling Obama the Affirmative action candidate with him actually calling for more affirmative action. And even if he did, that does not fit the definition of racsim.

                      <<2. He and his campaign have tried to play the race card more then once poligazette.com/2008/01/13...ake-racism/

                      Dude, Obama not bailing Hillary or Bill out after they or their campaign stuck their foot in their mouth is not Obama or his campaign playing the race card.

                      Not racism.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: What has Obama pandered?

                    Thu, May 8, 2008 - 11:39 AM
                    <You have to understand that the way legislation works is that there are multiple versions that are debated, being against one version does not mean you are going to vote against the final version.>

                    Let's not forget the number of "riders" tacked on each bill. This is usually where the "porK" gets handed out and one hand washes the other. Average joe citizen never is the wiser. I've not found one site on the internet which publishes bills in their entirety.
                    • Re: What has Obama pandered?

                      Thu, May 8, 2008 - 11:42 AM
                      <<Let's not forget the number of "riders" tacked on each bill. This is usually where the "porK" gets handed out and one hand washes the other. Average joe citizen never is the wiser. I've not found one site on the internet which publishes bills in their entirety.
                      reply to this post

                      You are right, that is key as well. Senators have been known to even vote against their own bills because of the pork that is tacked on to it. Lets say a disabled veteran bill is being passed and you are for it, but then the Republicans tack on pork that you can't vote for in good conscience, then the opposition can subsequently paint you as being against disabled veterans for voting against that bill.
                      • Re: What has Obama pandered?

                        Thu, May 8, 2008 - 11:55 AM
                        <then the opposition can subsequently paint you as being against disabled veterans for voting against that bill>

                        so it's Republicans - 2, Democrats -1, disabled vets- 0 or as we say "business as usual in Washington"
            • Re: What has Obama pandered?

              Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:56 PM
              <<In my opinion, McCain is the one who doesn't pander>>

              Unfortunately, this is incorrect. I like McCain and 4 years ago I'd have agreed with you. Recent examples:

              1) Embrace of Bush during 2004 to gain the base.
              2) Embrace of Falwell
              3) Embrace of voodoo economics
              4) Embrace of Scalia as ideal judge after being part of the gang of 14
              5) Embrace of the Administrations definition of torture

              All these were necessary to gain the nomination and personally I don't put much stock in pandering. To say he hasn't pandered though is incorrect.
              • Re: What has Obama pandered?

                Tue, May 6, 2008 - 4:25 PM
                "All these were necessary to gain the nomination and personally I don't put much stock in pandering. To say he hasn't pandered though is incorrect."

                I stand corrected, but will change my statement to "the one who panders the least".
                • Re: What has Obama pandered?

                  Tue, May 6, 2008 - 5:59 PM
                  <<I stand corrected, but will change my statement to "the one who panders the least".

                  but you are only saying that because he is your candidate, not because you have done an in depth analysis of how much each person is pandering.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: What has Obama pandered?

                    Tue, May 6, 2008 - 11:16 PM
                    "but you are only saying that because he is your candidate, not because you have done an in depth analysis of how much each person is pandering. "

                    McCain isn't my candidate, that is just a knee jerk assumption by the partison crowd in here. I have said I prefer him and I trust him and his record more but I am not closed mind.
                    So I'm not pimping my guy like most of the people in here.

                    Have you done an in depth analysis of who is pandering? Pandering is not something that can be proven unless you're inside his inner circle. Otherwise it's just an opinion. The examples you gave of McCain's pandering can be explained away and the examples I gave of Obama pandering can be explained away.
                    • Re: What has Obama pandered?

                      Wed, May 7, 2008 - 10:13 AM
                      <<I have said I prefer him and I trust him and his record more but I am not closed mind.

                      Thus he is currently your favorite candidate.

                      <<Have you done an in depth analysis of who is pandering? Pandering is not something that can be proven unless you're inside his inner circle.

                      Read the definition, pandering is clearly defined by changing your position for political expediency. Being that his reasons for voting against the tax cuts don't match up with his new reasons for admitting he was wrong, that is clearly pandering.
  • Re: What has Obama pandered?

    Tue, May 6, 2008 - 5:20 PM
    They all do it. And I think they all do it with equal vigor. If they want to get the votes they need to show the voters kinship of ideals and purpose. But we all know the truth is that not one of them will go to Washington and remember what the hell they promised anyone along the trail.

    That said Obama:

    Went bowling to show he's a regular joe. (it kinda backfired but he gets an A for effort)

    Put distance between himself and Rev. Wright (Obama's not a hater)

    Paraded out his white kin, living and dead. (Obama knows both sides of prejudice)

    Let conservatives know that he's going to be fiscally responsible by nixing the tax holiday.

    Letting the public know he'll be able to make the hard decisions the next president will have to make (nixed the tax, addressed racism)

    Showing stability through his transparency (making his life an open book so people won't be afraid of him)

    Frequently photographed showing affection for his wife, appealing to single and married women

    Consistantly anti-war with a anti-war voting record. Normally this wouldn't be pandering but we're coming into a time when our country is damn weary of war. Emphasis on this could be viewed as pandering.